Anonymous pirosnake 10w

Like Bikers are stereotypically scary BUT

4

Anonymous orange_joyful_cat44 10w

can you just shoot people who assault you in public? or does it have to be like in a dark alley way or something?

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Anonymous #4 10w

Assault is the standard. And it doesn’t have to be life threatening though some states are very strict on duty to retreat.

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Anonymous pirosnake 10w

the problem is though I feel unsafe because they COULD harm me. me being strapped isn't going to stop people for verbally harassing me, and i can't pull a gun on them for that.

1

Anonymous pirosnake 10w

so if i’m in a bar and someone grabs my butt, my throat, my waist without consent and after i’ve told them im not interested i can shoot them wherever? genuinely asking idk the rules

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Anonymous #2 10w

that's the thing tho it only comes in handy if someone actually attacks me. it wouldn't stop people from verbally harassing me/ or staring at me/ approaching me/asking me inappropriate questions etc etc

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Anonymous OP 10w

I meant like threat of physical force.

3

Anonymous #5 10w

yeah bc if i started carrying a gun to my waitress job that'll surely get the creepy customers to stop flirting/sexualizing me. they do it in front of their literal wives and children but yeah a gun will stop it!

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Anonymous pirosnake 10w

but the point i'm making is a gun will only stop the physical force, it would KEEP me safe yes, but it wouldn't stop me from feeling unsafe. which imo defeats the point bc i *usually* leave situations before they escalate to physical violence/force, so getting a gun wouldn't really change anything.

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Anonymous #4 10w

If you made it clear that they need to stop and they chose to continue, they are committing sexual assault which can be considered bodily harm and deadly force is therefore allowed. You will probably have to convince a jury of your choice.

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Anonymous #4 10w

It varies by state. In a Stand-Your-Ground state, anyone who attacks you in a place you’re legally allowed to be. In a Duty-to-Retreat state, you basically have to prove in court that you did everything you possibly could to either run away or attempt to de-escalate or try to get help until shooting them was the only way left to save your life in order to not catch a murder charge. Castle Doctrine states have a duty to retreat in public but let you stand your ground in your own home.

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Anonymous OP 10w

Fair

3

Anonymous #4 10w

Some states also have proportionality of response, so you can defend yourself with force, but not necessarily deadly force unless you were in life-threatening danger. So like if he grabs your butt in a bar, you can punch him in the face and not catch an assault charge, or mace him, but you probably couldn’t shoot him without catching an attempted murder charge.

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Anonymous #4 10w

it can be in public, but self defense in general has to be proportional in most places. so deadly shooting isnt always considered proportional from what i understand

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Anonymous #6 10w

Saying no / Being rejected IS clarity?? You shouldn't have to be told at gunpoint to listen to a women. I don't understand how saying "I'm not interested" is confusing for you.

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Anonymous OP 10w

You can work with your therapist on how you feel and react to how you feel. You can use a gun to stop someone who has actively cornered you with the intent to harm you.

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Anonymous #2 10w

Why should it be on me to "work on how I feel" when i didn't do anything but simply exist as a woman? Why isn't it on men for making comments that make me uncomfortable?? What are you saying if someone at a gas station tells me I have a banging body (true story btw) i'm supposed to just react with positivity and trust he didn't have any bad intentions??

-2

Anonymous OP 10w

That’s.. not what he’s saying. He’s talking about women who flirt back and play along, because they fear it would be unsafe to say no or reject a guy. He’s suggesting that having the gun will empower them to actually say “I’m not interested” because they know they can defend themselves if a guy takes the rejection badly.

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Anonymous #2 10w

Or if I get asked out and I politely decline and the man starts yelling at me i'm supposed to just what change my mind?? bc i can't pull a gun on him yet bc he's technically hasn't laid hands on me

0

Anonymous #2 10w

Again, why is it on the women to have to defend herself. Even if the women is flirting back and not be assertive is she says she's not interested, it means she's not interested.

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Anonymous OP 10w

Yeah it is. Also totally not what I was talking about. Idk if you’ve heard, but a lot of women (like, tons) WON’T reject someone or say no in any way shape or form. Instead they feign interest, apparently “in case the guy is a murderer”. Of course, for us who aren’t murderers, it’s a colossal nuisance. I can take no for an answer. Of course. The trouble is when you never get one and you have to guess. No means no; that’s easy. But half the time yes means no too and we gotta mind read

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Anonymous OP 10w

It is on men to not threaten your safety. But you can’t control whether or not they do, so it is in your interest to do something you can control, to protect yourself from men you can’t control. The same way it is on drivers to not hit me when I’m crossing the street, but it is still in my interest to do something I can control and look both ways before crossing to protect myself from drivers I can’t control.

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Anonymous OP 10w

No, if you politely decline and the man starts yelling at you, you call the police. And if he attacks you before the police get there, you shoot him. And then you go home alive.

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Anonymous #6 10w

I’d rather women feel dangerous enough to be honest with us than think I’M dangerous. Try as I might, I could literally never be good enough at mind reading to feel ok about having to do it or with the risk I’m bothering someone

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Anonymous #6 10w

first of all, yes literally never means no. UNLESS is has been previously established by both parties and it is a mutual playful banter thing. It's highly unlikely that is the case between two strangers so a good rule of them is No means No. If you don't get a no, AND you don't get a yes? Still means no. Basically anything BUT an eager yes would mean no.

1

Anonymous #2 10w

Or I leave and then call the police. The point in what i'm saying is I don't see the need of getting a gun if it isn't going to stop that from happening to in the first place, since there are many other ways I can defend myself before it gets to the point of physical violence, therefore it's not worth the investment for me.

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Anonymous OP 10w

You ever think those are situations where you DON'T NEED TO KILL SOMEONE OVER A RUDE GESTURE?!

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Anonymous #6 10w

the fact that you think you have to "mind read" is part of the problem. if you don't get an eager yes, then it's a no. it's very simple actually, like if you went to the barber and he was talking you into dying your hair green and you didn't outright say no bc you didn't want to be rude but still expressed your discomfort in a polite way and he still dyed your hair green you'd be upset right?

1

Anonymous OP 10w

and if you tried to sue the barber he could be "well you didn't say no" and you can be like but "i didn't say yes" even if you said something like "i don't know" that's not eagerly agreeing, and with something serious like dying your hair the barber should've have taken the i don't know as a solid yes bc it wasn't.

1

Anonymous #5 10w

that's exactly my point. lots of men make the argument gun = safety and i'm saying it wouldn't provide total safety as it would only stop people from violence, and there are other ways to prevent violence from happening that don't involve a firearm so it seems pointless to me.

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Anonymous OP 10w

I’m not saying it’s on her to defend yourself. I don’t want her to have to. I want her to feel safe. But if she doesn’t and that’s not reasonably within my control, then it should be in hers And listen to what you’re saying. “Yes literally never means no” (something you’d need terminal pretty privilege to sincerely believe, congrats I suppose?), but then you restrict that to an “enthusiastic yes” (as opposed to the ones that mean no?). Gauging someone’s enthusiasm when they’re feigning it is th

8

Anonymous OP 10w

I wish there were an invention where you could eliminate negative people. Unfortunately guns only will act as an eliminator and deterrents of threats. The fact that you wouldn't feel safer with a gun blows my mind since it is the ultimate stopper of violence and it doesn't seem I could convince you otherwise with that opinion.

2

Anonymous #6 10w

An unenthusiastic yes, needs more reassurance. It doesn't necessarily mean no. it means ask again.

1

Anonymous #6 10w

e definition of mind reading. It’s also the definition of a lack of clarity. Why leave that up to the guy to determine if you want him to know for sure whether or not you’ve rejected him. I’m not imagining this, a zillion women have acknowledged it online and I’m surprised you’re just now hearing of it. To be clear, I’m a PRETTY good lie detector. A professional actually. So it’s not like I think I get this wrong every day. But the first thing to know about it is that there’s no possible way I

6

Anonymous OP 10w

but if you have asked several times and she had said no before then and said yes to get you to leave her alone then that's technically harassment. you should've leave after the first time she said no. that's the only case i can see someome giving an unenthusiastic yes

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Anonymous #6 10w

could trust myself to be objective about that. And I’d rather *zero* risk I was unknowingly bothering someone who thinks I’m a murderer. Honestly, to me that seems like the more compassionate position

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Anonymous OP 10w

Ah, I see the difference then, going back to your original original question. It’s because we have a different definition of ‘stay safe’ than you do. You are talking about staying safe from men who are socially unpleasant and make you uncomfortable. We are talking about staying safe from someone who intends to do bodily harm to you up to and including ending your life.

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Anonymous #2 10w

That's vastly undermining what it means to feel safe, as well as people who are victims of verbal and emotional abuse. Men who are socially pleasant and make women uncomfortable are exactly the ones rhat would escalate it to physical violence. That's why we feel unsafe around them, and if a gun isn't gonna stop them from making us feel that way then what's the point?

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Anonymous OP 10w

Well that’s another hypothetical you’re making up though & still not what I’m talking abt. And the answer there is easy bc no (unlike yes) is unambiguous. But like I said, I’M talking about situations where someone never did say no, and continually engaged and showed interest & gives no outward indication despite wanting to be left alone. IMO it should be uncontroversial that y’all should never feel you have to do that and I wish everyone felt safe enough not to. We hate that too

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Anonymous OP 10w

I shouldn’t have to worry about getting shot at while I’m at work in East Cleveland. But I have two coworkers who have been shot at on the job. I can sit here and say “Why should it be on me when I did nothing but exist at my place of employment”, or I can take my life and my safety into my own hands, because regardless of whether someone else *should* be threatening my safety, there is something *I can do* to protect myself.

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Anonymous #6 10w

it's right there in ur description. "never did say no" is all you should need. An absence of a no is not a "yes" or a "keep trying until you get a no or yes." It's a leave her alone. It makes all the other things she is doing invalid. If you didn't get a clear answer then you should assume it's no and you shouldn't proceed any further.

3

Anonymous #5 10w

ultimate stopper of PHYSICAL violence. if a husband calls his wife a whore/slut/bitch and orders her around and emotional and verbal torments her everyday but hasn't laid a hand on her would you say she is in a safe environment?? since he isn't being physically abusive

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Anonymous OP 10w

That’s because in a guy’s mind, stopping physical violence IS safety. Unwanted flirtation does not constitute DANGER. It’s *not good*, it is harassment, but it is at most an unpleasantry, not a threat to life or limb.

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Anonymous OP 10w

Prolonged intense emotional abuse is a different story, since that can pose a danger to life via deteriorating mental health. But that’s also a situation where, as you suggested earlier, she should leave.

3

I have been verbally harassed at literally every job i've ever had since I was 16. It takes a toll on your mental and emotional wellbeing if you are constantly being seen by men as just a piece of ass. Let alone a person. Yes, having a gun would keep me alive, but it wouldn't make me feel safe and respect as a human being, since even with it's addition it wouldn't stop creeps from objectifying me. I don't see why that isn't as concerning for you.

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Anonymous #4 10w

Duty of Safe Retreat exists in most jurisdictions. If you’re in a bar, you can’t shoot someone because a jury would almost certainly find that you could have retreated behind the nearby crowd of people. But if you’re cornered, (or he grabbed your throat or somewhere else that obstructed your ability to flee) you can. (If the attack is a violent one (offensive is different; still a battery, but implicates proportionality)). Although, also, gun in bar is prob illegal in the first place

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Anonymous #2 10w

and what i'm saying from a women's prospective it is prolonged and intense emotional stress, since it happens to women everywhere for their entire lives well as young as 14-16, so it's just as important to us as staying safe from physical violence bc a lifetime of being objectified and sexualized by 90% of men is just as bad.

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Anonymous OP 10w

If they are exactly the ones that would escalate to physical violence, then that is the point of carrying a gun. So that if they do escalate, you literally have the power to stop them.

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Anonymous OP 10w

“A hard hat might stop a falling brick from caving in my skull, but if I don’t feel safe from objects falling on me, what is even the point of wearing one.” The point is that you don’t get your skull caved in.

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Anonymous OP 10w

I refer you to my earlier comment

1

Anonymous #4 10w

I'd recommend breaking this one out in the bar

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Anonymous OP 10w

Are you hearing yourself? The absence of a no is also a ‘leave her alone’? There’s literally no way a woman can express interest that a man should believe? You just went from “yes never means no” to literally EVERYTHING means no And I’m sorry but that just isn’t true. I know lots of women who have had conversations, dates, relationships, even marriages (and yes, with men) that they’ve enjoyed. There’s just no way that literally EVERY woman who’s ever said yes to something was pretending

2

Anonymous OP 10w

Well then, I guess that’s your question answered then. Men say women should carry a weapon to stay safe, because men’s definition of safety isn’t feeling comfortable everywhere you go, it is to not end up in a hospital or a cemetery.

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Anonymous #2 10w

Women shouldn't have to fight to stay alive. Men should seen and respect them as human beings to begin with.

4

well certainly with that mentality, maybe and this is just a thought. instead of being content with "it is what it is" we as a young generation fight against the system that set that up and teach our young how to be better people.

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Anonymous OP 10w

“Maybe we can just cure humanity of greed, selfishness, vanity, and entitlement.” That sounds great, why has no one thought of that before

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Anonymous OP 10w

You’re right, women shouldn’t have to fight to stay alive. Just like I shouldn’t have to worry about being shot at work. But if I know there’s a chance I’ll need to fight for my life, I’d prefer to go into that fight armed, figuratively and literally. If you don’t want to arm yourself, you’re free not to.

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Anonymous #2 10w

is that what I said? Or did I say fight against the system that set it up (the patriarchy) and better and teaching our kids. if you were curious i was vaguely alluding to egalitarianism/feminism. yes obviously there r going to be bad people in the world but there r plenty of "good" people who are just feeding into that system like parents not being good role models for their children.

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Anonymous OP 10w

There is no system that set it up. It has existed in literally every system that has ever existed since the beginning of time. It is even observable in other animals than humans.

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Anonymous OP 10w

You said teach our young how to be better people. We already teach people not to do bad things. People do bad things anyways. Do you seriously believe that the only reason people do bad things is that no one taught them not to do bad things?

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Anonymous OP 10w

“Comes in handy” is a bit of an odd way to phrase “will stop an extremely traumatic event that will permanently alter your life regardless of how mentally strong you are”. I see what you’re saying, but I’m wondering if you think when men suggest being armed that they think those things are prevented by a gun?

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Anonymous OP 10w

Yes, being armed does not change the overarching culture that exists in patriarchal capitalistic societies. But it absolutely can prevent something that would genuinely be a traumatic event, the kind that might completely disrupt and change your life. Much different tool for a much different situation than being harassed on the street.

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Anonymous OP 10w

Which is not to detract from the detriment to life quality that being harassed constantly brings, just that being attacked and defending yourself vs preventing being attacked are very different

4

Anonymous mother_russia 10w

Women (and men but the topic is women rn) who have been SAed or raped have had their physical strength, any martial arts training, any weapons at their disposal, etc. used against them in court because “if it was really assault or you really didn’t want it, why didn’t you hurt/kill/maim/fight back”

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Anonymous mother_russia 10w

But if this post is just about like living alone or walking home alone so a gun to prevent being attacked or jumped, then yeah a gun is helpful. But if it’s about assault, no it’s hardly ever helpful.

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Anonymous #2 10w

No i don't but i was just using that as an example. Also misogyny IS a direct result of a the patriarchy and the reason why women don't feel safe around stranger men. That's something that is unique to humans

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Anonymous mother_russia 10w

I also think almost men don’t understand that the people who harass us ARE the people who abuse us. It always starts somewhere and telling the difference when a line is officially crossed and we could fight back is so so much more vague than they think. It’s all slow escalations and corralling you into a corner so by the time you say no or they officially cross the line, you’re already backed into a corner with nowhere to go.

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Anonymous #6 10w

Okay so ig i have to spell it out for you. An absence of a no and a lack of a yes/term of consent or agreement would mean to leave her alone. Since like you said lots of women flirt back as a defense even if they aren't actually interesting. Flirting back though doesn't mean yes. I also was referring to strange men coming up to women they find attractive and making them uncomfortable.

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Anonymous mother_russia 10w

To me it seems like the point would be to deter those harassers from becoming active threats. You don’t have to flash it whenever you feel unsafe, but “leave me alone, I carry” should send a pretty clear message

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Anonymous mother_russia 10w

We do understand that the people who abuse you are the people who harass you; that *is* the reason we say carry a weapon. So that if they escalate and you find yourself backed into a corner with nowhere to go, you are not helpless and have the ability to defend yourself.

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Anonymous #16 10w

So most jobs (which is probably one of the most common places to get harassed by strangers at because they know you can’t respond aggressively) would not let you open carry or conceal carry while you work. And again 80% of assaults and rapes happen by someone the victim knows, so they already know you carry and threatening or “warning” them wouldn’t be effective.

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Anonymous #16 10w

I feel like you are under the impression that a lot of sexual harassment is just like strangers catcalling and following us down the street. That is a much more uncommon situation. Most sexual harassment is more like a close friend/mutual friend/coworker/lab partner/etc. making a lot of sexual jokes or innuendos towards you and slowly being overly touchy in a way that is obviously flirty but if you say anything they will deny it or get angry like “get over yourself I was never into you” type

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Anonymous #16 10w

Until it’s a week or two later and you realize they have been getting more and more touchy and you haven’t said anything because maybe they didn’t mean it like that but now it’s obviously crossing a boundary and you never reciprocated their actions or encouraged them and have been trying to ignore it or make excuses to leave, until one night when they are drunk or decided to make a jump they just start putting their hands all over you and trying to kiss you and feel you up,

2

Anonymous #16 10w

And if you push them off then they get angry and start cursing and blaming you for leading them on or actually physically aggressive and hurt you, but if you don’t fight them then they will keep escalating. So it’s an option between fighting and likely being physically hurt in a more traumatizing way like violent rape/assault, or regular rape/assault and you just dissociate until they are done and you can go somewhere else with minimal physical injury and he won’t try to get back at you or

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Anonymous #16 10w

Spread rumors and make your life hell because he’s angry.

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Anonymous #16 10w

Now you might think “this sounds very specific” but that’s genuinely the plot to majority of rapes and assaults. That or assault/rape where you agreed to some actions (like kissing or grinding or whatever) but didn’t agree to sex or anal or bdsm, etc. and the guy decides to take it further without any consent.

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Anonymous #16 10w

Those two situations I have heard the exact same stories about SO many times. Me and every one of my friends (minus one, hers was csa) have had at least one experience of this.

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Anonymous OP 10w

“Lack of a yes”. You. Are. Arguing. About. A. Scenario. You. Made. Up. That. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. What. I. Said. You are arguing about a scenario you made up that has nothing to do with what I said! Or are you referring to small talk where nobody’s even asked anyone out? On my planet you don’t usually get a yes OR a no to a question you haven’t asked. But it’d still be nice if women felt safe enough to express whether theyre enjoying a conversation or want to be left alone. Which again,

2

Anonymous #6 10w

Why would u walk up to a strange women to begin with?? If you are a respectable man you should know how that comes off.

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Anonymous #6 10w

was always my headline here and I’m genuinely dumbfounded that you managed to have a problem with it. I mean really. I said I’d rather you felt dangerous enough to say no openly and I’d rather a little be scared of you than the other way around. And you argue? You really object to the fact that there are guys who don’t relish the fact that women are scared of men? I get there are reasons to be wary of men, but you shouldn’t WANT to be. Or be mad that we don’t want you to be either

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Anonymous OP 10w

What?? Is that a serious question? Because if you never meet people, the people you knew at birth will eventually die off or move away and you’ll go insane talking to Wilson the volleyball. That’s why

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Anonymous #2 10w

I’ll ask you then, in the situation I listed thoroughly, at what point would you use the gun? And would you just threaten to use it and bluff or give them warning before actually shooting them?

2

Anonymous #11 10w

Because nobody ever got stared at or harassed in non capitalistic societies. 🤦

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Anonymous OP 10w

This is why I’ve come to the conclusion that talking to women is losing the game. So I don’t interact with women my age anymore. I won’t even look at them. If they want me they can approach me

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Anonymous mother_russia 10w

I think it would still be a wise decision just to alleviate the fear of being alone at night. It might not be a perfect solution but it can’t hurt

3

Anonymous #16 10w

Which is why I said in the beginning of my comments it’s useful for walking alone at night but not for sexual assault and rape. For men and women, a gun is helpful for robberies or targeted attacks. But a gun doesn’t just magically stop the constant sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape that happens and I would appreciate it if people who haven’t experienced this would stop talking like they know how to solve it or even what it is.

3

Anonymous #6 10w

There r obviously situations where it's okay to walk up strangers like in a classroom setting, or at a new job but if your going up to random people you see in stores or on campus or at restaurants then that's part of the problem. You weren’t ever taught stranger danger???

2

Anonymous #18 10w

I honestly respect your for this. I try to approach guys bc it puts the ball in my court. Since i'm extremely unlikely to make him feel uncomfortable, but even then I still don't do it often.

2

Anonymous #17 10w

and you think if i'm scared for my life i'm thinking about all of those things???

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Anonymous mother_russia 10w

idk why that's such a hard concept to grasp i feel like i'm going insane

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Anonymous OP 10w

If you choose to carry a firearm, you should know the laws in your state in your sleep. That’s essential to being a responsible firearm owner. And yes, you should be thinking about that or at least train to know in the moment. For example, it is highly illegal to shoot someone in the back (no matter if you fear for your life or not). So you should be aware of the laws regarding shooting someone, because those will absolutely be relevant when the police come and investigate the incident.

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Anonymous mother_russia 10w

Yeah I guess in my case it wouldn’t have helped if I was armed, she did it without warning

1

Anonymous #16 10w

Exactly

1

Anonymous #17 10w

i'm not planning on being a firearm owner because they don't actually prevent unsafe situations, they prevent you from physical violence. even then if a person is close enough to u they can disarm u. and i'm sorry but if a situation escalates to the point where i'm fearing for my life then i'm not gonna be thinking about the legality of defensive measures. it's a lot to ask of someone in the midst of being attacked to think about bc u can't control how u respond to trauma.

0

Anonymous #2 10w

this metaphor isn't at all the same. you can't ask the brick to stop before it falls on you...

0

Anonymous OP 10w

Stranger danger? Well, yeah, as a kid (because I was a kid) I was taught not to talk to ADULT strangers without my own adult. But I met people my own age all the time. Wait, are you an adult? Bc if not, that may have been the source of, like, most/all of my confusion. To be clear; this whole time I’ve been talking about interactions between adults, where the general stranger danger rule hasn’t been in effect for years

2

Anonymous #6 10w

I am an adult and the stranger danger effect is very much still in place??? Whenever I am out in public by myself I do not want to be approached unless it's by someone I know. If you are walking up to random strangers then that also clears up my confusion. I was under the impression most people i see in public regardless of gender want to be left alone. It's also creepy to walk up to random strangers.

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Anonymous #6 10w

like why wouldn't a stranger be dangerous? you don't know or trust them 😭

3

Anonymous OP 10w

Yes a person can technically disarm you but you should be able to respond quicker than that. Also, you absolutely should care about the legality of your defensive measures in a self defense situation. If you pull a gun on someone in self defense and they run away and you shoot them in the back, that is illegal, because it is no longer a self defense scenario. It is a lot to ask of someone, you’re absolutely right. That same responsibility is in play whether or not you carry a firearm.

1

Anonymous #18 10w

full sentence there gang, picking out a random part to get mad at

1

Anonymous OP 10w

It’s exactly the same. The brick didn’t fall from the sky, someone dropped it from above into the area I’m working. They’re not supposed to drop bricks while I’m working below them. It shouldn’t be on me to have to worry about getting bricked, it should be on them not to brick me. I still wear a hard hat, because it’s something I can do within my power to protect myself from other people I can’t control doing something they’re not supposed to.

0

Anonymous mother_russia 10w

At exactly, precisely, this point

0

Anonymous mother_russia 10w

When it is a choice between either fighting, or letting it happen, that is precisely the moment the weapon is for. So that you have an option that isn’t just dissociating while letting them have their way with you.

-1

Anonymous #2 10w

That point only happens if you are fully aware of what happening (reminder that 30-79% of sexual assaults involve the victim having drank alcohol), are actively carrying a weapon within your reach as someone is making out with you and feeling you up, you are able to recognize in the moment that it’s sexual assault and aren’t just freezing (which is not the same thing as choosing it’s safer to not fight, and is 70% of people’s trauma response to sexual abuse and is not a voluntary response),

1

Anonymous #2 10w

AND that’s on top of that they might not stop because of the gun and it pisses them off more. Because they will be extremely close to you and moving the gun would be extremely easy, like just moving behind your body since they already have their hands on you. Or they might call you on your bluff and decide they don’t think you’ll shoot them and you either have a dead body when at most you have evidence that they were kissing you and nothing else or they hit you and you hopefully have a bruise

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Anonymous #2 10w

Or they decide to leave or call the cops. You could easily get arrested for threatening them with a deadly weapon because you have no proof they were trying to assault you. Or they just decide to hate you and tell everyone that you tried to shoot them while you were making out and that you’re crazy, have fun going to class, work, or talking to your friends or family after that.

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Anonymous mother_russia 10w

I didn’t say it makes you invincible, I said it gives you an option other than just letting it happen. If you don’t think it’s worth having that option because you think you’ll probably freeze anyway, that’s your personal decision and you’re welcome to make it. But I’m still gonna recommend otherwise.

-1

Anonymous #2 10w

Reminded that rape and sexual assault are in like the top 5 hardest crimes to prove, so it’s not looking good if they decide to press charges or call the cops

2

Anonymous #2 10w

My whole point is that it’s an extremely complicated situation and it’s very unlikely to be helpful to most people. Owning a gun is great, conceal carrying is awesome, but it is not something that we should act like will be super useful with sexual assaults and rape. We can’t pretend that having a gun suddenly stops sexual assaults and rapists.

4

Anonymous #2 10w

Many women have been jailed or punished for hurting or killing their assaulter/raper because they couldn’t prove they were being assaulted. So it’s really not great advice to be like “just attack them with a weapon” without discussing the nuance of it and how it can be used against you.

4

Anonymous #10 10w

this is a terrifying take

7

Anonymous #10 10w

I think there is DEFINITELY some criminal history that should make it illegal to own a firearm. Specifically domestic abusers because they can have perfect mental health. Violent crime= no weapon. But if it’s like white collar or drugs or something, yeah sure.

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Anonymous #10 10w

do they perform mental health screenings on everyone who owns or wants to own a firearm? why regardless of criminal history?

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Anonymous mother_russia 10w

If someone forces themself on you, and you kill them in self defense, and it goes to court, the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove that the shooting was not justified. So you actually don’t have to prove he assaulted you; the prosecution has to prove that he didn’t.

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Anonymous #2 10w

even if you are wearing a hard hat tho if a brick falls on you at a certain speed and from a certain height, you could still get hurt. also what it the brick hits u on somewhere that isn't your head? how is the hard hat gonna protect your foot from breaking? also say the hard hat does protect u from one brink, but what if several bricks keep falling on ur head throughout your shift??

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Anonymous mother_russia 10w

Most of the cases are not for women who defended themselves while being assaulted, they are for women who went back and killed the assaulter days or weeks after the fact. Because that doesn’t fall under self-defense, that falls under premeditated murder for vengeance.

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Anonymous OP 10w

You’re right, I’d be better off not wearing one and taking them directly to the head.

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Anonymous #2 10w

That’s not what I’m talking about. I know there are also women who get murder 1 charges for things like that but I’m talking about when it’s actively in the moment and they defend themselves. Because saliva being on both of their mouths doesn’t show if it was consensual or threatening.

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Anonymous #4 10w

In an ideal world yes

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Anonymous mother_russia 10w

Outside those guys but a lot of violent crimes were made outta necessity

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Anonymous OP 10w

I’ve been told this a lot

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Anonymous #2 10w

Anyway, so with everything I’ve explained, the whole point is the statistical likelihood of a firearm preventing or being useful in a sexual assault is very very low. It’s great for some forms of protection but not very effective in this one.

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Anonymous #4 10w

In the U.S., they run a check against a federal database that flags you if you’re a felon, or if you’ve ever been involuntarily committed to a mental hospital. But a full mental health screening, no.

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Anonymous #2 10w

you be better off not taking a job where you are actively fearing for your life. which is why i said it's not comparable bc unlike a job me existing as a women isn't really something i can just quit.

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Anonymous #2 10w

Another relevant point is that you wouldn’t likely be able to press charges against the person who attempted to assault you because it would likely cause a counter suit or even a criminal case against you. However this isn’t too much of a downside because you typically can’t press charges anyway. It would make you much less likely to get a restraining order against the person as well.

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Anonymous OP 10w

Well then no one can work construction, and you can go back to living in a mud hut.

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Anonymous OP 10w

I hate to break it to you but the world is full of danger in even the most mundane tasks, and you risk your life every time you get out of bed. You can’t spend your life hiding under a blanket, at some point you have to get up and live, but you can still take basic precautions to protect yourself. You look both ways when you cross the street. You wear a hard hat and steel toes when you’re in an area with potential falling objects. And you carry a weapon to protect yourself from dangerous people.

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Anonymous #4 10w

Many states you have to demonstrate a reasonable and IMMEDIATE threat to your life. Grabbing your ass is disgusting and piggish but it doesn’t really qualify as a threat to your life. Do some research on ur local laws

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Anonymous #6 10w

Only 11 states have duty to retreat laws so I’m not sure where you got that most jurisdictions have it? But yeah if you’re able to retreat it makes things significantly better off for everyone involved.

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Anonymous #17 10w

But most states DON’T have stand-your-ground laws, and the duty of safe retreat is a common-law default because a court probably wouldn’t find that killing someone in self-defense was justfied if it wasn’t actually necessary. Even where a statute doesn’t specify a duty of safe retreat, it can exist (and iirc usually does) under how courts apply self-defense as a defense to murder

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Anonymous #6 10w

36 states have stand your ground laws (or judicial precedent equally the stand your ground laws). Courts typically do find that if someone presents a credible threat to your life, it is reasonable lethal force for self defense.

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Anonymous #23 10w

Yeah I think jujitsu is probably one of the best defense trainings for women specifically for sexual assault and harassment. Many places offer classes specifically for women where you can earn pink belts, it’s specifically about teaching the most important and useful things for self defense against bigger opponents.

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