Anonymous #1 3w

it’s not pointless debates tho, this is people’s livelihoods. trans ppl experience an insane amount of disrespect, discrimination and violence. ppl deserve to be treated with kindness and respect regardless of their gender identity. gender is made up, and different that biological sex. this is something scientists agree on

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Anonymous #4 3w

Gender exists for a reason.

-1

Anonymous #4 3w

Scientists focus on facts and logic. Not personal feelings.

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Anonymous #1 3w

So the lives of trans people or people who struggle with their gender identity just are "pointless" they don't deserve empathy?? are you serious?? you don't have to understand something to still be able to treat them with respect and kindness

0

Anonymous #3 3w

Masculinity isn't exclusive to men who were born as men, and upholding it certainly shouldn't be constraining?? What do you mean it's a survival instinct?? If you're talking about how men who express femininity are deemed as less masculine then that's a exactly the problem. Masculinity can't be defined bu arbitrary traits

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Anonymous #5 3w

An overgeneralization, but you’re not too far off.

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Anonymous #5 3w

this is just so incorrect on so many levels. i don't even know where to begin

1

Anonymous #2 3w

I don't understand that. They are still people

8

Anonymous OP 3w

Yes it’s an overgeneralization but there’s plenty of truth to it

1

Anonymous OP 3w

Arbitrary?

4

Anonymous #1 3w

psychologist are scientists they focus on feelings as well as facts and logic. also gender literally is a feeling of how you want to present yourself. there are empirical studies providing evidence for the existence and validity of transgender identities from biological, psychological, and social perspective.

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Anonymous #3 3w

gender exists as a way to let people express themselves in a way that lines up with their identity. a growing body of evidence from brain studies indicates that the brains of transgender people more closely resemble the structure and function of their experienced gender than their assigned biological sex

0

Anonymous #4 3w

Lol, lmao.

0

Anonymous OP 3w

conservatives are just too closed minded to accept anything that contradicts their worldview. they are too sold on strict gender roles and traditional family dynamics to support or even take the time to learn abt something that deviates from that. it is quite simply willful ignorance. they say facts over feelings but the research isn’t supporting their opinions. their opinions are due to their feelings of uncomfortability with something they can’t understand

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Anonymous #3 3w

yes things like and example would be something like painting your nails. if a person who identifies as a man decides to paint his nails, that wouldn't make him less masculine. even though painted nails is commonly associated with women.

0

Anonymous stanczyk 3w

Is it social conformity? Or is it just treating other human beings with respect and empathy? I honestly don't expect everyone to understand the complexity of gender identity. I actually think it's on a similar scale to how white people will never fully understand what it's like to be black. ( I'm black before you ask) however that isn't justification to be unfair and bigoted. Especially if you don't try to understand.

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Anonymous #5 3w

that wouldn't even explain the bigotry though, like you can be a conservative and not be a bigot. i asked why man are transphobic, unless you are saying that all conservative ppl are also bigots and they go hand in handV

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Anonymous OP 3w

It's social conformity For basically all of US history until relatively recently, the personal opinions of men were generally far more "progressive" than women who were more "conservative" because women tend to seek conformity and until recently it was traditionalism which dominated social interactions.

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Anonymous #4 3w

Thank you for giving me an actual answer and not just spewing right wing rhetoric. I understand on some level being uncomfortable with what you don't understand. What I don't get though is why that results in forcing their ideals and beliefs upon everyone else and/or actively treating people who are different than them without respect or kindness. That I think is just inhumane.

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Anonymous OP 3w

Also before you continue to """debate""" the men here, you aught to set forth some definitions of "transphobia", "bigotry", etc so that less people get confused in subjective interpretation.

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Anonymous OP 3w

It's not more of a "real answer" than any of these other responses, it's just the one you already agreed with

5

Anonymous stanczyk 3w

i'm sorry maybe i'm misunderstanding. I'm talking about transphobia and the strict view of gender as a whole that a lot of men have. You answered the second part of the question but not the first. Why does the fact that you as a individual have this view on gender gives you the right to force it upon others? To clarify i'm not saying you specifically are forcing it but more so in general sense on why men view specifically people who don't fit into traditionalism with no respect or kindness?

4

Anonymous stanczyk 3w

but you’re clinging to the traditional belief system of the past lmao this makes no sense

1

Anonymous stanczyk 3w

The other responses including yours don't answer the full question.

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Anonymous #4 3w

Do you consider yourself morally superior to your ancestors?

0

Anonymous stanczyk 3w

That's actually insane that bigotry isn't clear to you. The first comment stating "if you're born a dude, then you're a dude" is just straight up invalidation of gender identity. You can't tell someone how they identify, you're not them and if they happen to be born as male but don't identify with that gender then saying they are is disrespectful and hurtful.

1

Anonymous #3 3w

society has advanced in many domains. yes modern moral values are higher in compassion and more informed than some that our ancestors held. our ancestors enslaved people, viewed women as property too, excused r*pe, supported violence against lgbtq people, viewed disabled ppl as worthless, had horrible inhumane practices in healthcare and psychiatry, the list goes on. we advance as a society as our access to knowledge increases

1

Anonymous OP 3w

I'll answer the first part if you can give me a (reasonably) comprehensive definition of transphobia

1

Anonymous OP 3w

Comment #3, is ignoring my questions but their original comment implied that masculinity is survival instinct and my interpretation of that is they are properly the type of person to make fun of or consider other men who don't fit into the traditional view of masculinity as less of a man. Especially bc he downvoted my example of man painting his nails bc in my opinion that has not to do with masculinity. Neither does clothing, interest, sexual orientation or anything arbitrary like that.

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Anonymous OP 3w

Which is not only transphobic but homophobic as well.

-1

Anonymous OP 3w

probably*

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Anonymous stanczyk 3w

Transphobia is the fear, hatred, disbelief, or aversion toward transgender people, gender nonconformity, or gender identity that does not align with a person's sex assigned at birth. It is a form of prejudice and bigotry rooted in the societal belief that gender is strictly binary (male and female) and that one's gender must match their sex at birth.

0

Anonymous OP 3w

My interpretation of your original comment to me means that you believe all transgender people, genderfluid , and other people who don't identify with their assigned sex at birth are conforming to social pressure to fit with a certain belief system, that system being that gender isn't a binary construct . It's transphobic because it's dismissive of the real struggles of gender non conforming people.

1

Anonymous OP 3w

That's a very broad definition if you are lumping in those who just disagree with the notion of gender outside of the binary with people with actual malice. I can't give you a straight answer if i don't know what as specific attitude men generally have towards transgenderidm that you want explanation for.

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Anonymous #4 3w

i know she would genuinely be miserable probably even suicidal if she were forced to live as a boy. why do people have such a problem with letting people do what makes them feel happy and right in this world? let people be themselves. trans people aren’t harming you. letting people transition saves lives.

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Anonymous #7 3w

I think some men (women sometimes too) though, struggle to understand why someone would transition to a gender they subconsciously (or consciously) see as lesser (being FTM trans)

2

Anonymous OP 3w

What i was saying is that women are more likely to submit to social pressures to agree with the tenants of transgenderism, not specifically those who identify as trans themselves as that has a slightly different set of causes

1

Anonymous #7 3w

But I also think that (cis)women have the privilege in a patriarchy to not be rigid in how they express themselves, leading to more openness to how others do so.

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Anonymous #4 3w

Hey so this is actually not biologically true and transphobic as well.

4

Anonymous stanczyk 3w

So people who disagrees are just as transphobic as people with actual malice. Especially if they don't respect pronouns, and/or are exclusive and dismissive of gender nonconformity all together. I feel like if it helps you can start with the transphobia within this post? Why do you believe that acceptance of gender non comforminity is from social pressure?

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Anonymous stanczyk 3w

so having empathy and compassion for transgender people submitting to social pressures? do you apply this idea to every minority? is not being racist submitting to social pressures? like what 😭

1

Anonymous stanczyk 3w

I would actually argue that societal pressure, especially for FTM trans ppl, is to not accept them. Especially in the south, or in other countries.

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Anonymous #7 3w

But what do I know Im just a boy :P

3

Anonymous #7 3w

*MTF

1

Anonymous #7 3w

Holy shit you seem insufferable

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Anonymous #4 3w

The idea that gender nonconforming people should actually be the opposite sex is so misogynistic and backwards. There is nothing wrong with this kid and they don’t need to change a thing about themself. I was into car engines and trains instead of princesses as a little girl but that doesn’t mean I should’ve been a boy, I was just a girl who was into those things because I found them cool and interesting. Humans cannot change sex and telling a child that they can or should is extremely harmful

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Anonymous #8 3w

you lack understanding of what it means to be transgender. and what misogyny is tbh. sex is not the same thing as gender. my little sister is a girl by gender and male by sex. if she wanted to be a boy who was also into girly things and dress up that would be completely okay but she’s not. she’s a girl and has always viewed herself as such. gender is not biological. gender is a representation of how you feel and how you wish to present yourself. fuck outta here talking abt shit u don’t know abt

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Anonymous #8 3w

allowing people with gender dysphoria to pursue gender-affirming care including social, behavioral, and medical interventions, is considered THE most effective course of action by major medical organizations to alleviate distress and improve quality of life. it is entirely more harmful to tell trans people they cannot/ should not transition

3

Anonymous #8 3w

So why do you think it's stupid?

1

Anonymous #7 3w

I know many cis women that would disagree with you on that

1

Anonymous #7 3w

It’s also misandry but go off ig

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Anonymous #3 3w

wah wah. studies show women tend to score higher on empathy and measures of emotional understanding and intelligence

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Anonymous #4 3w

Woah, it’s almost like the socially dominant basis for what constitutes “emotional intelligence” is defined entirely through a feminine lens without any consideration for masculine emotional expression

1

Anonymous #3 3w

modern measures of EI assess skills like recognizing emotions, using emotions to think, understanding complex emotional blends, and regulating emotions. that has nothing to do with femininity

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Anonymous #7 3w

If you ever find yourself wondering why there aren’t more male feminists, remember that people like #4 are the main culprit. It’s difficult to trust that the movement is truly inclusive of men when so many of its participants insist on feminine supremacy.

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Anonymous #3 3w

i don’t believe in female supremacy jesus christ. i’m just providing an explanation for why women have more empathy and support for trans people as well as other groups, more care for social justice issues etc.

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Anonymous #3 3w

dismantling the patriarchy will benefit men and i hope it fuckin does yall need help

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Anonymous #4 3w

This whole conflict is a social prisoners’ dilemma. When you say “dismantling the patriarchy will benefit men,” that can be compared to one prisoner telling the other “trust me, I won’t snitch on you.” Can you empathize with my position as a man?

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Anonymous OP 3w

Navel gazing about your “gender identity” is largely unproductive and pointless. Biological sex is immutable and “gender identity” is just your personality. It has nothing more to do with your sex than it does your eye color. People should just be who they are without unnecessary and often short-sighted medical interventions

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Anonymous #3 3w

I know many cis women too 😃Im not saying they are equal i am saying they are often homophobic is different ways

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Anonymous #7 3w

Or transphobic

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Anonymous #4 3w

I think you’re the one conflating gender and sex, friend! Sex is biological and gender is a made-up social construct; the personality traits and interests assumed to be carried by members of a particular sex. Having a personality that conflicts with the stereotypes assigned to you based on your sex does not necessitate transitioning your sex. Telling a kid it’s even possible to change their sex is just as irresponsible as telling them it’s possible to change their race.

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Anonymous #4 3w

And I actually know a lot about these so-called “gender affirming” procedures, enough to know that they are going to be seen by history as this century’s version of lobotomies. There is no other mental condition treated by changing someone’s body. Have you ever seen the results of a vaginoplasty? Absolutely barbaric and horrifying that this is being done on living people. These butcheries do not remotely resemble vaginas in appearance or function. We don’t give anorexics gastric bypass.

1