Anonymous #1 3w

Men are not the victims of the patriarchy. Just because it’s bad for everyone doesn’t mean it’s equally as bad for everyone, just that it’s not good for anyone. Men aren’t systematically oppressed by the patriarchy and thus shouldn’t be considered victims in the traditional sense.

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Anonymous #1 3w

Equally feels like oppression to the privileged. Men aren't being beld responsibility or being blamed, it just feels that way bc men rep the most benefits

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Anonymous OP 3w

“Men aren’t being blamed” “…and who set that system up💅”

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Anonymous #2 3w

So… men aren’t systematically oppressed, and we also reap the most benefits, then how is it bad for us??

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Anonymous #1 3w

Well besides the fact that some men care about the fact that the women in our lives are being harmed by the system, which should be enough to be against it, it creates unhealthy and harmful dynamics in relationships, such as the expectation for men to be the “bread winners” instead of a relationship being a team effort where both individuals are expected to contribute. It’s also harmful through toxic masculinity, which is self explanatory. There’s more but that’s just off the top of my head.

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Anonymous #1 3w

The fact that men don’t feel like they can share things with their friends, for fear of being called gay. That many men see their self worth tied to being with a woman and a provider. The fact that men are given different expectations in schools and it’s helped cause a huge educational gap between men and women are a few more.

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Anonymous #1 3w

the fact that young boys aren't taught to proper emotional regulation which causes them to become overly aggressive, or overly dependent on their future partners to rasie their self esteem, or end up dealing with their emotions in unhealthy ways (sex, drugs, alcoholism). Just to name a major one

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Anonymous #1 3w

going into the relationship dynamics, the whole men are providers and women are caretakers. the reason women were once caretakers is because they weren't able to provide for themselves. they had no autonomy outside of their husbands and now since that has changed, that dynamic needs to changed bc everyone should be able to provide and care for themselves. men should be taught how to properly clean a house and cook a meal and women should be taught how to mow the lawn and change a tire

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Anonymous #1 3w

the patriarchy isn't a black and white concept and it's even have just one victim and one oppressor. i suggest looking into it yourself more to help you understand how it affects men bc we could be here all day explaining it.

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Anonymous #1 3w

Systemic oppression is also different from discrimination on a case by case basis. Men do experience the latter and it is rooted in patriarchy. Eg despite having a SYSTEMIC advantage, if you were to look only at divorce court, they are significantly discriminate against just bc of the common conception that they aren’t as active, nurturing, or worthy parents.

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Anonymous OP 3w

I understand it, I just think it’s most often interpreted selectively depending on the point you’re trying to make. I think trying to map the entire frame of human conflict onto gender dynamics is an inherently reductive approach, and you’ve come up with a handful of workarounds to avoid admitting that. Intersectional/class struggles have only been loosely grafted onto the movement. Feminism is still “gender-reductionism” to its core, and no amount of “waves” will help until you realize that.

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Anonymous #4 3w

But couldn’t bias in divorce courts be rationalized as a means of achieving “equity?”

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Really? Why not?

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Anonymous #1 3w

because it doesn’t balance out anything? why would it be considered equitable?

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Anonymous #5 3w

Wouldn’t it serve to somewhat balance the books of historical injustice?

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Anonymous #5 3w

This is a genuine line of questioning, I’ve heard this argument from people who have called themselves “feminists”

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Anonymous #1 3w

feminism is just a subsection of egalitarianism, bc like i said before women didn't have autonomy outside of their husbands or fathers. however since that was a long time ago their are multiple definitions of feminism now. there is radical feminism or what i like to consider female supremacy where women believe they are above men. that i do believe is gender reduction. supremacy of any kind doesn't benefit society. however non radical feminism just egalitarianism is that people deserve equal

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Anonymous OP 3w

rights. as I said lots of men tend to view all feminism as the first one OR they have a misunderstanding of how feminism will benefit them. The quote equality feels like oppression to the privileged is so relevant to men in this conversation bc to you it might feel as if feminism is bring men down, when it really is bring everyone to right playing field.

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Anonymous OP 3w

What are some of the ways in which I am privileged?

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Anonymous #1 3w

Men on average experience greater safety from street harassment and sexual assault, more frequent representation in positions of power, and less scrutiny in public and professional life. Young men are often pushed towards higher paying careers positions such as STEM or Law, and are taken more seriously/gain respect easier in those fields than women are/do.

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Anonymous #1 3w

now i don't know who you are so i can't explain how you specifically benefit from male privilege. if you are POC, or disabled mentally or physically then it's probably a different experience for you. I also want to point out that men are privileged in no way denies that bad things happen to men. Being privileged does not mean men are given everything in life for free; being privileged does not mean that men do not work hard, do not suffer.

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Anonymous OP 3w

The examples you gave make sense, and they do somewhat apply to me personally. I’ve had a relatively “progressive” upbringing too, so I probably haven’t had as much direct contact with prescriptive gender norms as other people.

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Anonymous OP 3w

Sorry for being hostile earlier, I sometimes get frustrated with the constant “us vs them” framing of gender issues. Especially in comparison to problems like economic inequality, which, realistically, is a more obvious and concrete gap in privilege.

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👍

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