Anonymous twirling_tornado 6d

additionally several things on this list (driver’s license, women as property) were brought into play by states not the federal government. the changes you’re talking about were due to economic changes (such as women in the workforce) and social changes and were none of them were a single piece of legislation tied to a political party.

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 6d

and again, most of them (violence against women act, pregnancy discrimination act, etc) had strong bipartisan support

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 6d

Are the ideas traditionally liberal ideas though? I'm trying to educate myself and understand

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Anonymous OP 6d

the concept of individual rights and equality is associated with classic liberalism yes, but the specific legislative actions from the past on your list are mostly just a product of an evolving socioeconomic landscape and, again, bipartisan efforts

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 6d

Thank you. I'm looking at liberalism as ideology not really party specific passed legislation. Bipartisan would mean then it was likely liberals and middle of the road conservatives then right? Because this ideas would not fall into the conservative ideology back in their time. Personally I am not for one party or the other I am in favor of having more than 2 parties involved in politics because there are way more ideas out there than 2 “sides” can represent. Thank you for your reply!

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Anonymous OP 6d

bipartisan meaning both the republican and democrat parties. the picture you posted starts with “hey MAGA women” implying that the Republican party was against the items on the list, which is very much not the case. there is fiscal conservatism and there is social conservatism, and i’m assuming you are talking about social conservatism here (traditional family values, etc), to which yes, some of the things on the list were seen by some as a threat to

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 6d

modern American liberalism has evolved pretty far and it no longer sticks to just economics and the concept of individual rights and equality. it also pushes for government intervention in many things when before that was not part of it. i do also agree that the 2 party system sucks. most people end up voting for whichever side seems less crazy to them, ie. the lesser of the two evils

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 6d

I completely agree! Thank you for pointing out the social and economic being separated. Yes in general I am wondering about the social aspects.

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Anonymous OP 6d

💖

0

yes, these changes normally occur in a bipartisan setting, but that’s only because it’s shifted from far left to the middle of the political spectrum. that shift occurs because of progressive movements and their influence on the general public.

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 6d

it happened because the left wing suffragettes blew shit up

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Anonymous #4 6d

I’d rather be fearful to end up in court (I’m not because I don’t beat my partner nor marry right after meeting someone) than be stuck with someone who beats me or who I hate. like that’s the alternative to marriage.

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Anonymous #4 6d

Trying to wrap my brain around this. I cannot imagine.

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Anonymous #2 6d

Actually shifted from far right to center. Far left in the US was the party of federalism, supported slavery, did not endorse in equal rights for all And still really doesn’t, but that is true for any of the “far X” idealogies today

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Anonymous #5 6d

mfw I can’t tell the difference between dem/rep and left/right. dem/rep are just party names lol, if you knew history then you’d know they flipped the spectrum

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Anonymous #2 6d

And now they are just corporate entities with a business incentive for power

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Anonymous #5 6d

we can agree on that

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Anonymous #2 6d

Yep. FWIW, I consider myself a classical liberal, fiscally conservative, socially liberal, with no desire to tell anyone what they should think or say Sadly So many on both sides want to do exactly that

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Anonymous #5 6d

I feel like I am very similar as you. I know very little about politics but trying learn and understand but things are so extreme in the media I want to hear from real people

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Anonymous #4 6d

what?

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Anonymous #5 6d

Similar in my politics as you not that my lack of knowledge is similar

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Anonymous #6 6d

Yes mostly social issues.

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Anonymous OP 6d

yeah, the right missed me when they started advocating for policies which get trans people killed or put into an unending depression bc they’re denied care and told they’re sinning/morally disgusting for something harmless which they can’t control

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Anonymous #4 6d

So you’re saying that divorce shouldn’t exist, even if a husband is beating his wife?

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Anonymous #4 6d

That “society” was filled with abuse, drugs, and depression. You can have that all you want, don’t fucking force me to be less than a man. You can be a sex object all you want

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Anonymous #2 6d

see i don’t think anyone should be killed but the left missed me when they started trying to give little kids who aren’t even old enough to get a tattoo yet puberty blockers, surgeries, and hormone therapy

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 6d

surgery is fake news and done in less than a dozen cases in which those teenagers were literally in danger of killing themselves because of their dysphoria. and letting children get necessary healthcare to avoid lifelong depression and potential suicide isn’t comparable to literal cosmetic surgeries. regret rates for GAC is also multiple times less than regret rates for knee surgery. kids shouldn’t get knee surgery by your logic 🫶

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Anonymous #2 5d

my point is the left supports it and advocates for it, not that it is widely done yet (thankfully). kids should not be getting any sort of irreversible genital surgeries. no kid is mature enough to make a decision like that.

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 5d

again, “irreversible genital surgeries” for minors are only done in cases where the only other option is letting someone irreversibly off themself in a body they hate. also, there are studies on suicide rates for people with surgery vs those without, which I doubt you’ve looked at, either. survivorship bias claim with evidence to the contrary.

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 5d

correlation not causation. trans people who get those surgeries often have a higher level of dysphoria, which is the cause of suicide in this case. the surgeries alleviate the physical but don’t change how society treats them. being told that they’re “mutilating” themselves contributed to that 👍

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Anonymous #2 5d

also assuming that those 16/17 yos are getting bottom surgery is factually incorrect, they’re getting top surgery.

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Anonymous #2 5d

crazy how you’re now walking back on your previous comment and blaming society for their suicides instead. and the very fact that i have to argue with the left that a CHILD should NEVER be having any sort of gender-affirming surgery or being put on hormone disrupters and puberty blockers is insane. i hope you never have children.

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 5d

I hope you never have children because you value parts of their body over their actual lives. and where’s the walking back? dysphoria is aggravated by discrimination lmao. and you’re not “arguing with the left,” you’re arguing with me. someone who has talked with trans minors and have heard their pain. have you ever talked with a trans person?

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 5d

and to further disprove your point: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19359705.2021.2016537#abstract

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and the big one since we were talking about suicide rates, here’s a list of studies which disagree with you. one study doesn’t prove anything, especially if you refuse to link it 🫶

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 5d

30% of trans youths attempted last year, and it would be much less if they could access the care they needed. you argue against largely reversible puberty blockers when children suffer an irreversible death. you argue against non-genital surgeries when the alternative is an irreversible death. you argue against necessary medical care when the alternative is an irreversible death. don’t tell me you care about children when trans children die because you refuse to let them receive lifesaving care

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Anonymous #11 5d

republicans also were the ones who fought for abolition. why? because they were on the left, and democrats were on the right. being a republican now is vastly different than being a republican when they were left on the spectrum. the party ideologies flipped some time during the early 1900s.

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Anonymous #2 5d

if you cannot see the clear survivorship bias problem here and the massive problem with riddling kids with drugs and surgeries then i don’t know what to tell you. and yes, i have trans friends. i work in tech. there’s a lot of them. most of them have common sense and agree with me about not ruining the lives of children. i’ll stop here.

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 5d

No one is advocating for irreversible surgeries for minors. That’s why there haven’t been any. You’re fighting propaganda about a fake issue

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 5d

ruining the lives of children by getting them necessary care so they don’t fucking kill themselves. ruining their lives by drastically increasing their mental health and lowering suicide rates. survivorship bias doesn’t exist when you look at the ones who didn’t survive. and using dead trans people to justify killing more trans people? you make me sick.

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Anonymous twirling_tornado 5d

also I found the study you quoted. that’s not a study of trans people w/ GA surgery vs trans people w/o GA surgery. that’s a study of cis people vs trans people. no fucking shit we have higher suicide rates, we’re constantly discriminated against by people like you. all your statistic shows is how awful our society is towards trans people. shame on you for blatant misrepresentation of facts to justify your shitty viewpoint. your study just shows the necessity of treating dysphoria through GAC.

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Anonymous #12 5d

You can, but it’s because of liberals that you have A CHOICE

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Anonymous #8 5d

I wouldn’t care if a trad husband forced me into it either.

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Anonymous #12 5d

What you want to do shouldn’t impede the freedoms of others. No one should be forced to live your lifestyle.

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