Anonymous #1 17h

Rape culture is created by how we speak to one another…including mocking each other or devaluing each other for not doing what we expect them to do. I already listed the chain of succession…how a boy is introduced to rape culture by being made fun of or viewed as lesser for not romantically or sexually “acquiring” women. This is not a debate. It is rape culture.

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Anonymous OP 17h

Wym this isn’t a debate? You reposted something that’s gonna illicit opinions from people and they’re not all gonna agree. Making fun of someone for “not getting girls” can be as simple as calling someone a loser for not having a romantic partner, that’s been done forever by men and women. It’s not definitively rape culture

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Anonymous #2 17h

I mean, this isn’t a debate because it’s an objective fact. And You’re treating “it’s not definitively rape culture” as if rape culture requires a signed confession. It doesn’t. Rape culture isn’t only someone saying “rape is good.” It’s the everyday logic that makes rape easier to rationalize like women as prizes, sex as conquest, manhood as sexual access, and men who don’t get that access as worthless.

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Anonymous #2 17h

So when you say it “can be as simple as calling someone a loser for not having a romantic partner”….that’s not a counterargument. That’s the mechanism. It’s not simple. It collapses a romantic partner into “getting girls,” turns women into a scoreboard, and tells boys their worth depends on being chosen. “Bitchless” isn’t a neutral synonym for single. It’s a gendered humiliation. It says you are nothing because you haven’t accessed a woman.

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Anonymous #2 17h

“It’s been done forever by men and women” is not a defense. Rape culture is also ancient, and women enforce patriarchy too. Longevity doesn’t make it harmless…it makes it culture. And no, not every person who says it rapes. That was never the claim. The claim is that this mockery is one of the practices that keeps the culture alive…it trains shame, entitlement, and resentment, and incel/looksmaxxing grifters feed on exactly that.

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Anonymous #3 17h

That is not what I said

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Anonymous OP 16h

2+2=4 is an objective fact. “Making fun of guys for not getting girls = rape culture” is an opinion. discussing opinions has its utility absolutely but let’s not confuse rhetorical analysis for objective fact. That sentiment is said in such a multitude of ways that it’s impossible and disingenuous to say it’s purely an artifact of rape culture. “Getting girls” often has nothing to do with sexual conquest, it can simply mean finding a date. Girls get made fun of for not getting guys too, it’s

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Anonymous #2 16h

A well worn phrase with many meanings. Which is why blanket condemnations of ‘condoning rape culture’ are just unhelpful, you just need to examine the context for the specific use case

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Anonymous #2 16h

2+2=4 is an objective fact. “Rape culture” is an analytical concept. You’re treating it like a matter of taste, but it’s not. It’s a claim about how a practice functions. The claim is that mocking men as “bitchless” is one of its practices of rape culture. Rhetorical analysis is exactly how you identify rape culture. The fact that it’s rhetorical doesn’t make it not real. Social facts are still facts.

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Anonymous #2 16h

Yes, girls get made fun of for not getting guys too. That doesn’t cancel it out…it confirms the same gender order. It disciplines everyone who fails hetero desirability. BUT the male version has a specific function…it specifically ties manhood to sexual access and feeds entitlement. That’s what incel and looksmaxxing grifters harvest. that’s what you’re not understanding

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Anonymous #2 16h

A thing can be a joke, a status enforcement, and a piece of rape culture at the same time.

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Anonymous #2 16h

Okay. Let’s examine the context. A man is called “bitchless” or mocked for “not getting girls.” That’s not a comment on his loneliness. It’s a gendered humiliation: you are worthless because no woman has granted you sexual access. That framing of women as things men “get,” sex as proof of manhood…is rape culture. Not “condones rape” in every single instance, but part of the cultural grammar that makes entitlement and coercion intelligible. And it’s very helpful to point out.

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Anonymous OP 16h

As long as you are hearing those words spoken from other people and grafting your own interpretation onto their words then sure your theory holds. But the minute you understand that not everyone is using that term to describe a lack of sexual access then it falls apart. 2+2=4 remains objectively true because it doesn’t change based on who’s saying it or what their intentions are. Not getting girls means a multitude of things which is why your one explanation fits all argument doesn’t work

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Anonymous #2 16h

I mean it’s like saying “nobody should ever say ‘that’s gay’ because it’s always exclusively harmful” most of my gay friends have their own subculture where that is understood to be a joke and quite acceptable. Ignoring context or making blanket statements just doesn’t work with something as complex as human lay

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Anonymous #2 16h

*as human language

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Anonymous #2 16h

What else can “not getting girls” mean outside of access to women? Nothing. It can mean not getting dates, not getting a girlfriend, not getting laid, not getting attention, not getting chosen, not getting married. Every single one is still about access to women. The only thing that varies is the degree and the type of access. So your “multitude of meanings” is actually one meaning with different flavors. That’s the point.

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Anonymous #2 16h

The 2+2 analogy fails because social meaning isn’t math. “Rape is wrong” isn’t 2+2=4 either, but that doesn’t make it an opinion. Rape culture is a pattern, not a formula. It doesn’t require every single speaker to consciously intend “sexual access” for the phrase to function that way. The insult works because the audience understands the implication…you are less of a man because no woman has validated you

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Anonymous #2 16h

Your analogy proves my point. There's a difference between a marginalized group reclaiming a slur in-group and a dominant group using gendered shame to police members. Gay people joking "that's gay" is reclamation/irony in a historically targeted community. A straight guy calling a guy "bitchless" for not getting girls isn't reclamation…it's enforcement by way of the dominant gender order telling men they're worthless without sexual access to a woman. The power direction is reversed.

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Anonymous OP 16h

I’m sorry dude but I don’t think this is going anywhere. You seem quite determined to interpret very vast areas of language in a very specific way and I can’t really do anything to change your view. If you interpret all comments made around failing to find a partner as “rape culture” then so be it. At the very least this conversation hopefully made clear that your interpretation isn’t universal, myself and others do not see the world that way

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Anonymous #2 16h

It’s not my interpretation you’re just being a dumbass who wants to make fun of people who struggled to find romantic or sexual partners. I’ve explained this thoroughly. There is no other interpretation to be had.

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Anonymous #2 16h

I also think there are better ways to achieve our shared goals of reducing abuse than shaming people over language that is often devoid of sexual commentary

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Anonymous OP 16h

To each their own 🤷‍♂️ language is a complicated thing

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Anonymous #2 16h

So locker room talk is rape culture but making fun of men for being romantically/sexually unsuccessful is not rape culture?.. and you think that makes sense?

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Anonymous #2 16h

This is not a to each their own thing. you just defended rape culture

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Anonymous OP 16h

Well, again, you can’t apply blanket statements to entire areas of language. Guys in a locker room saying shit like “I’m gonna fuck drunk women tonight” is very different from my brother giving me shit about not getting a girlfriend because I spend too much time playing video games or something. I think it’s pretty clear how the first example has a lot to do with rape culture and the second one has nothing to do with rape culture. Finding a partner is an entirely separate thing from encouraging

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Anonymous #2 16h

Rape

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Anonymous #2 16h

You are fucking impossible

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Anonymous OP 16h

Honestly don’t do that, that’s disgusting. Taking our rhetorical disagreements and spinning it off as me defending rape culture is so dishonest and repulsive. I’ve been quite clear how I feel about genuine rape culture and haven’t hurled terrible accusations at you simply because we disagree on rhetoric

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Anonymous #2 16h

Obviously, there are extremes to fucking locker-room talk….not every fucking statement is the same. But just because someone calls something “locker-room talk” doesn’t mean it’s all equivalent. Treating women as things to be gotten is still problematic, so any conversation about it IS apart of rape culture. You’re being dense.

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Anonymous OP 16h

Tell me where the problem is with the example with my brother. How does that encourage rape culture? How is it different from my brother saying the same thing to my introverted sister who hasn’t found a boyfriend?

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Anonymous #2 16h

This rhetorical disagreement is fucking stupid because you think there’s some way to spin mocking a man for being unsuccessful sexually or romantically as not contributing to the idea that women are pieces of meat to be claimed.

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Anonymous OP 16h

There are such ways, yes. I gave you an example below and I’d love to know what about it is problematic or encouraging rape.

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Anonymous #2 16h

I answered This specific question in my seventh response to you

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Anonymous OP 16h

I’d love a specific response to my specific example if you don’t mind, my whole point is that context matters. If it’s clearly advancing the interests of rape culture hopefully it’d be easy for you to point to the harms in my example

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Anonymous OP 15h

I’m sorry but that doesn’t address my point at all and I think that’s illuminating of the point I’m trying to make. My sister is in middle school and gets fun poked at her for not having a boyfriend. It’s not because her relationship has anything to do with sexual access, it’s because poking fun at people can be entirely independent of access to sex. Your desire to fit all instances of this speech into the bounds of your framing is harmful to the movement overall

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Anonymous #2 15h

I appreciate the conversation as far as it goes but you seem quite entrenched (and maybe I am as well) so I don’t really want to continue it. Thanks for the responses tho, hope you have a good one

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Anonymous #2 15h

It addresses your point directly actually…The specific function of male ownership over women’s bodies is fueled by attacking people who have a lack of access to women’s bodies. It is not work the same way with women, unless they are making fun of men for not having access to women’s bodies.

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Anonymous OP 15h

You’re running

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Anonymous OP 14h

I’m not. Something about my questions or your answers has so far resulted in a failure for us to understand each other. Unless there’s some other line of investigation we can use then I’d rather not bang my head on the wall by going around in circles

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Anonymous #2 14h

I addressed your point directly

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