Anonymous OP 7w

Huh and yet this will be worse with Trump just fyi

8

Anonymous #2 7w

Two points: 1. Whats the point of making fun of Trump voters for being misogynistic if yall supported misogyny too? Just to feel good? 2. Why did yall nominate a genocidal candidate? Why not simply nominate an anti-Trump candidate that respected women?

-9

Anonymous #2 7w

And don’t give me that crap “We have no power over the nomination process”. Politicians are opportunists. If Harris was polling badly enough with the democratic base, a better candidate would have stepped in

-10

Anonymous OP 7w

who is “y’all”? i haven’t made fun of anyone nor am i in charge of presidential nominations? just asking what you’d propose people did in that situation.

22

Anonymous OP 7w

this has to be fucking bait- Kamala did poll poorly at dnc, she was on the ballot because Biden dropped and supported Kamala- she was never voted in at the dnc to be the candidate for the presidential election

10

The UN just declared it a genocide. You guys will go down in history with the nazis and people who supported slavery

1

Anonymous #2 6w

In fact, as the famous anti-colonial author Aime Cesaire pointed out, there was never any difference between nazis and western liberalism. Everything the Nazis did, you guys are have already done against colonized peoples. The nazis became infamous in the West bc they treated other westerners like colonized peoples

3

Anonymous #5 6w

A genocider was the candidate because she polled well enough with genocidal liberals like you. Enough people, like you all, decided genocide wasnt a red line, and enabled it

-2

Protests are meaningless if you unconditionally support the people you are “protesting” against. This is a classic ritual of rebellion- a false form of protest that acts more for virtual signalling than anything else.

-2

You literally voted for the genocide. You are complicit. Going to a protest doesnt wash your hands of that.

-2

According to Fanon and Cesaire, you guys are fascists. Your candidate’s treatment of Palestinians is no different than what Hitler did to the Jews. What liberal democracies do to colonized peoples is exactly what the nazis did to other europeans.

-1

And for the millionth time: The genocide fundamentally happened because enough people, time after time, have decided that imperialist mass murder isnt a red line. It doesnt matter whether you “agree on that particular issue”. By voting for her, you gave the signal it wasnt a red line. You enabled it. You’re a monster

-1

Anonymous OP 6w

Protesting and boycotting means nothing if you still voted. But you not voting thereby allowing someone arguably worse for Americans and Palestinians across the board to get into power is really what’s gonna make the difference. They’re so much better off now. Also we draw the red line at Palestine but screw what’s happening in parts of Africa, South American, India, and Eastern Europe who have had it just as bad for just as long who are having their aid threatened now that Trump is in. 👍

1

Anonymous #7 6w

I’m a communist and have been against every US president because the crimes they commit globally. What do you mean eastern europe? Who is being starved and massacred in concentration camps in Eastern Europe?

0

Anonymous #7 6w

My point is that genocide is always a red line, that Western feminism and support for “liberal democracy” has always entailed horrific crimes against the Global South, that voting for it just perpetuates the system

-1

Anonymous OP 6w

Ah you’re a communist that makes more sense… Do you think no one voting is the solution to help people here and abroad then? Or that not voting means you don’t still benefit from America’s system as it’s currently set up? (Genuine questions)

1

Anonymous #7 6w

1. I do vote, for communists. Not for genocidal imperialists. As you pointed out, both parties do FAR more evil than genocide on Palestine. Supporting either enables the system. 2. Yes all citizens of the first world benefit from imperial privilege, but you still shouldn’t VOTE for imperialism. A silly question

-2

Anonymous OP 6w

it did take days, but ultimately you answered my question; what you wanted us to do was throw away our vote on a third party that has no prospect of winning

2

Anonymous #2 6w

I mean if you rationalize it you’re completely entitled to vote third party in a solidly predicted state. That’s what I did, and unsurprisingly it went where I thought it would go. now even if you were in a swing state and you went third party, it wasn’t happening. If every third party voter went blue we’d have the same outcome. it’s such a marginal difference that the proportion of people who vote on well researched moral conviction can do so, unfortunately, without consequence.

1

Anonymous #3 6w

the electoral system exists as a two party duopoly, it would take a massive internal collapse of either party to see another rise in its place, but unless there’s a complete systemic upheaval we’re not going to see a prominent third party any time soon. I mean RFK pulled quite a lot of people from name alone, and yes stupid people in my opinion but regardless he got 5%. It’s nothing! Biggest independent contender in years and all he can get is 5%? A third party cannot win electorally

1

Anonymous #3 6w

I feel like the path forward is following in the footsteps of Mamdani in NYC, and yet we were robbed of the chance of someone like him running in the 2024 primary because the mindset of maintaining status quo with Biden was just too overwhelming. How many ignorant people prevented the actual base from a fair election. A lot changes in 4 years but the DNC acted like it was all fine, that Biden and Biden-esque figures were the best they had. Hopefully the lesson is learned, but I doubt it.

7

Anonymous #3 6w

So in the 1848 election where both parties were pro slavery and pro indigenous genocide, you would have voted for slavery and indigenous genocide?

0

Anonymous #3 6w

You’re using the same excuses that the nazis supporters used. “My vote/support wouldnt have made a difference”. Yes thats true, but you’re collectively guilty. You have collective guilt. It doesnt matter if everyone else supports the genocide, you have the duty to not do so

-1

Anonymous OP 6w

I mean in 1848 I’d probably be too occupied with meeting my material needs to research in depth about the presidential candidates, especially with information not traveling nearly as fast as it does now. But assuming I knew about both fully there’s no way I’d support a pro slavery pro genocide candidate, I’d seek a way out, and in the case of today electorally I took an out by voting for De La Cruz. But it doesn’t mean I don’t think that when presented with two options the “lesser evil” ought to

10

Anonymous #3 6w

So the genocide of Indigenous peoples is a red line but not Palestinians?

-1

Anonymous #2 6w

Basically, you guys are no different than nazis. Nazism was a historical continuity with Western Settler Colonialism. Everyone who supports the genocidal imperialist parties of the west is complicit. Frantz Fanon and Aime Cesaire both agreed on this, and they are the greatest anticolonial thinkers of all time

0

False, you’re the “Labor Aristocracy”. First worlders who support genocide arent the working class. Lenin said it himsef. You actively align with global capitalism and imperialism

-1

Anonymous #3 6w

be chosen, I mean it’s no way out but it’s a softer fall to fascism. Also I just don’t get your insistence to equate me to a nazi sympathizer for my stance. And you even agree with me, that a third party cannot emerge electorally. I’m arguing that while it’s viable for a left wing populist movement to radically alter society for the better, that the electoral duopoly is still another avenue that ALSO needs to be pursued. You’re pushing collective guilt onto myself, but you can’t possibly claim

0

Contemporary marxists agree that the main axis of class divide is the imperialist camp vs the Global South. If you are a citizen of the First World and support imperialist parties, you aren’t a worker, youre an oppressor

0

Anonymous #3 6w

to be guiltless just by voting third party too? I mean clearly the collective guilt burden is on the global north.

0

Anonymous #3 6w

“I vote for genocidal political parties that put people in concentration camps, but I resent being called a nazi”

0

Well then obviously you dont support imperialist parties. Who did you support in the last election?

0

I’m replying to like 6 people at once here

1

Anonymous #3 6w

I don’t know dude I feel like my actions of not endorsing Harris but denouncing Trump and voting for PSL aren’t exactly imperialistically aligned. Do you appreciate this Trump presidency more than a hypothetical Harris presidency because it’s more likely to radicalize people against blatant fascism? Or because the incompetency will better enable the fall of American Empire? Or would a Harris presidency be better in your opinion as we’d see fewer liberties eroded and some climate awareness etc?

8

Anonymous #3 6w

yea sorry yikyak comments isn’t quite optimal discussion space but here we are

-1

Anonymous #3 6w

I’m not saying voting 3rd party magically releases all guilt, I’m saying that its the bare minimum you can do. Like if a slaveowner claimed they felt guilty but still voted for pro-slavery parties every election, they obviously dont really feel guilty

-1

Ok #6 you are a genocider and #3 is cool

-1

Anonymous #3 6w

OP I’m telling you I hate Harris and Trump but I’d rather we have Harris in office right now, despite my understanding that my vote didn’t matter at all, thus the PSL protest vote. The genocide is continuing and it will continue and maybe the less right wing Harris would have been swayed. It’s possible her shitty grift to the center right campaign might have been a facade and she’d have been more receptive to public opinion (I doubt it) but the odds were higher than with Trump

10

Anonymous #3 6w

Ok I respectfully disagree with you #3 but you are definitely a real leftist. Regarding trump vs harris: the differences are mostly superficial. She does so much harm on a global scale via western imperialism that any support for her is counterproductive

-1

Anonymous #3 6w

And dont forget that police militarization, private prisons, and keeping immigrants in camps all increased under Biden. He authored mass incarceration. Democrats and Republicans are both repressive fascists, dems are just better at hiding it

0

Anonymous OP 6w

voting for the presidential party you most align with ~that has any chance of winning~ is being a realist, not a nazi. the nazi party rose to power by feeding into people’s fear and insecurity gradually, not by being less evil than the other choices on a 21st century american ballot. you’re repeating not only false equivalencies but also ad hominem attacks on average laypeople doing their best. that’s not inspiring change; it’s just turning people off to other ways they could be helping.

4

“How am I a genocider” you knowlingly voted for a genocide? “Organizing” for the millionth time, a protest is meaningless if you vote unconditionally for someone

-1

Anonymous OP 6w

yea see my comment at the bottom outside of this thread

2

I know your type, you’re a radlib who supports genocidal US imperialism because it supports your first world class interests. Your “organizing” is simply a ritual of rebellion to soothe your own conscience and look good to your liberal friends

1

because op lives in a bubble where the only way to change any human injustice is by throwing away your vote in a presidential election as a form of performative activism. that is the real answer we’re beating around here. not charity, not volunteering, not local elections, not spreading more actionable awareness of what other people can do right now. just “look at me! i’m superior, because i didn’t support this one person who lost an election anyway!”

5

Anonymous #2 6w

Actually, according to anti-colonial scholarship, and basic history, everything the US did to First Peoples and Europe did to Africa, the nazis did to other europeans. Western liberals like #2 are identical to the Nazis. What you voted to have done to Palestinians is the same as what germans voted to do to Jewish people

0

Anonymous #2 6w

This is a historical fact. Nazism didnt arise out of a vacuum, it was inspired by centuries of existing white supremacist thought, codified and legitimatized by Western Liberalism. According to Domenico Losurdo’s a Brief History of Liberalism, the very basis of Western Liberalism is that only White Western lives matter

-1

#2 and #6 are nazi scum and I genuinely couldnt care less what you say. You support mass rape, murder, planned famine against Yemen, bombing hospitals in Afghanistan, coups in Peru, child slavery across Africa, no thanks

-1

Neither of you have made any points this entire time other than “genocide is acceptable against non-western peoples”.

-1

Anonymous OP 6w

early european settlers are not The US™ in the 21st century, and you are still absolutely oversimplifying the nuances of two very different genocides and throwing the baby out with the bathwater to champion a cause you’re not even making clear. there were two political parties that had a chance of winning in the last presidential election; you haven’t explained how voting for neither is doing anything actionable to help stop the genocide in palestine when both parties had plans to feed it.

3

Feds are on the internet talking about western imperialism, quoting Aime Cesaire, telling people not to support the mainstream parties?? Youre actually insane

-1

God you liberals are so aggravating

-1

Anonymous OP 6w

i’m thoroughly convinced that this is either bait or, and i mean this in the most trying-to-be-helpful and least rude way, you should get tested for a communication disorder.

0

If you’re willing to vote for genocide and to put immigrants in concentration camps, YOU DONT HAVE SOLIDARITY. Dont pretend that yoy do. Holy shit, I’m so tired of you liberal imperialists coopting our language. You sided with the oppressors. You are the oppressor. You’re an enemy of the human race

-1

Be honest, have you ever actually read Marx, Lenin, Mao, Fanon, Huey Newton, Kwame Nkrumah, CLR James??

-1

For the 3rd time, the current state of the world is people in the Global South are born with no opportunities and slave away for western interests their whole life. As Lenin said, First World “workers” who support their bourgeoisie are class traitors. Thats you. You sided with the bourgeoisie

-1

Anonymous OP 6w

for every author you quote out-of-context, i’m sure you can find 10 qualified statistics, daya analysis, or political professional to tell you a third-party vote in a us federal election at this current point in history has zero chance of doing anything. if you want to make an argument for local elections, i’d hear that all day. but running around starting infighting by calling people nazis, bc you threw away the actual power of your vote as a performative act, is not the serve you think it is.

9

Feds actively repeat your liberal talking points, they tell people to support the bourgeois parties and that its useless to resist imperialism. The feds job is to turn people away from revolutionary socialism and make them loyal democratic voters like you

0

Anonymous OP 6w

feeling like arguing on yikyak about who is more pro-genocide based on the 2024 election isn’t forwarding proletariat revolution, yes there’s independent responsibility but the energy ought to be targeted towards those responsible for the catastrophic failure of the 2024 election cycle and those perpetuating genocide directly :/

6

Anonymous #2 6w

No, no one is being quoted out of context. Have read them all and am summarizing their ideas quite well. Can you give me an example please of someone I am quoting out of context?

-1

Anonymous #2 6w

It doesnt really matter if voting third party doesnt do anything. Voting for Harris or Trump actively enables and perpetuates the genocidal cycle. You have collective guilt. If millions of fascists like you decided genocide was a red line, there wouldnt be a genocide.

0

Anonymous OP 6w

i have picked up an oldass book in my life believe it or not, but i’ve also lived in dc and watched firsthand how things specifically in this country are working specifically today, which none of the more reputable texts you’ve mentioned address at all.

0

Anonymous #3 6w

These are fascists. They will never be persuaded to give up their first world class interests. They are irredeemable monsters.

-1

Anonymous OP 6w

well that comes down to a basic trolley problem where we’re pulling the lever to kill one person and you’re watching five get brutally murdered so you can say the action wasn’t yours.

6

Anonymous #2 6w

Let me guess: you have a nice gig interning for some asshole in congress you got from your uncle? Or some liberal polisci professor at a fancy college you attend?

-1

I mean, if you dont like being called a nazi, you shouldnt have… voted for genocide and concentration camps? And if you think me pointing that out makes me a fed, youre even crazier than I thought

-1

Anonymous OP 6w

i was an onsite essential engineer during covid keeping the city running. again your assumptions and ego shoot you in the foot.

0

I admit I am not currently spreading revolutionary socialism, I just dont like to see you spread lies without being challenged

-1

I think class solidarity is a wonderful thing. You’re lying about me again. I said that you can’t claim to have solidarity if you vote for other peoples genocides or a global system of oppression against the Global South.

-1

I’m honestly just astounded at the utter lack of self-awareness. You vote for genocide and get insulted when I call you a nazi. You preach unconditional voting for mainstream parties, but call me a fed??

-1

This isnt infighting because you are genocidal imperialists, not leftists. I read J Sakai’s settlers. Amazing book. Building off of Fanon and Cesaire, he takes the case to the US specifically, and explains how most American “leftists” have never really challenged US imperialism

-1

You’re not a comrade any more than a nazi skinhead is a comrade. If I accept as a comrade people who are “ok with” genocide against palestinians, then should I also accept as a comrade people who are “ok with” genocide against Jewish or Transgender people?

-1

Thats my original and eternal point: All human lives have equal value. If I allied myself with you but not neo-nazis, that would be telling the world that Jewish lives matter more than Palestinian lives.

-1

What reading no theory does to a mf (kidding. I dont think you have doctrinal issues. I think you side with imperialism bc it benefits you)

0

But you are “ok with it”. You voted for it. You decided it was acceptable, you decided it wasn’t a red line. Thats the definition of being “ok with it”.

-1

Dont you dare pretend to care about the Global South. Your sick and twisted candidate left mass graves all over the Global South. BRICs will win

0

1. Its not organizing if you refuse to meaningfully challenge the status quo 2. You’re literally a genocider

-1

Just replied with a Mao quote below

-1

And you arent just “ok with” genocide on Palestine, you also decided you are “ok with” rape in ICE camps, planned famine against Yemen, embargoes of Cuba and Venezuela, bombing hospitals in Afghanistan…

1

Anonymous OP 6w

no one here is claiming to be a patriot; we’re claiming voting for the less destructive of the two choices given to us does more than abstaining and lessening the size of the voting pool for the sake of saying “i didn’t vote for this candidate that lost anyway— look at all you nazis who did!” none of your arguments are coherent and none of the texts you quoted have anything to do with them.

5

federal? you think they got that far?

1

Anonymous #2 6w

1. But its not less destructive when you factor in that the US is a global empire that oppresses billions of people. 2. Its also not a coincidence that you benefit from aforementioned oppression of the Global South 3. Nope, I’ve drawn from ideas from several authors quite well. I ask again (because you didnt answer), what specifically have I “misquoted” or “taken out context”?

0

Anonymous #2 6w

4. Its a historical fact. Western liberalism has always been ok with crimes against colonized people, and it is with that context that your willingness to vote for Harris should be analyzed

0

Anonymous #2 6w

I dont mind being called stupid. There are worse things. Like being an imperialist, for example

-1

Anonymous OP 6w

wasting time online (as we are all doing) does nothing to impede imperialism… I also keep getting notifications about feds and mao on my college chat app… at least its hitting the dopamine receptors when I see little red arrows

4

Anonymous OP 6w

it is absolutely less destructive to vote for the least destructive candidate that has any chance of winning than to lessen the size of the pool so that the more destructive candidate can win, which is what happened here? i benefit from oppressed people as much as you or anyone else existing in american society, which is awful, but throwing away your vote is not the way to remedy that. the burden is on you to relate the text you’re quoting to what you’re saying, not on me to guess.

0

You do realize that I’m pushing the ideologies of the orgs targeted by COINTELPRO, and you’re pushing the voting for democrats?

0

Anonymous #2 6w

So its a total coincidence that you vote for an imperialist party and you benefit from imperialism, as you admitted? Just a coincidence? No link between these two?

0

Like seriously, whats the logic here? You admitted you voted for genocide and planned famine and ICE camps but youre not a nazi because… Palestinians/Yemeni/immigrants dont count as people?

0

Anonymous OP 6w

imperialism is the lowest common denominator between both you and me and all of the available options at the poll. you don’t have to speculate as to how bad things could be if you didn’t vote for one of the two available very imperialist parties, because you did that, and the more imperialist of the two options won. and in the current reality, i benefit from imperialism no more than you do.

0

Anonymous OP 6w

i’ve explained the logic step-by-step in several ways, and you have yet to acknowledge it at all

0

Anonymous #2 6w

How is Trump more imperialist? You guys commit genocide on Palestine too. Unrestricted weapon deliveries to Israel. Harris vetoed Palestinian statehood and every unconditional ceasefire. You guys also did a planned famine on Yemen. 400,000 people starved. Mostly kids.

1

Anonymous #2 6w

The hole in your “logic” is very discrete, which is how you hide it. You are pretending that you are powerless and the victim. Thats not true. You collectively enabled this by voting for it year after year. By voting for it, you gave your consent and made it electorally viable.

1

Anonymous #2 6w

In reality, if the american voters decided genocide was a red line, it would be electorally unviable, and would end very quickly. The genocide isnt to be blamed on you individually, but you and millions of people like you

1

Anonymous #2 6w

Just saw your trolley problem comparison. Thats it? Palestinian and Yemeni lives are just a necessary sacrifice for the good of your empire? Thats always how it works, isnt it? You Westerners decide that it would just be more convenient if the Palestinians, or Chagossians, or Apache or Inuit just died?

1

Anonymous #2 6w

Its revealing that you chose the Trolley Problem for your analogy. You admit that you “choose” who lives and dies. This is the system I take issue with. Westerners dont have the right to choose which ethnic groups “have to die”. You’re evil

1

Mm no I didnt. I think everyone should live. You think Palestinians have to die. But this is obviously false because if you guys stopped voting for genocide, it wouldnt happen. So the crux of the matter is this: it would be too inconvenient for you to stop supporting imperialism, so you convinced yourself Palestinians have to die

0

you literally voted for US imperialism and the capitalist status quo. Like where does this radical talk come from? You liberals are so funny. Talk radical, but always fall in line when your capitalist masters call you to heel.

1

Thats what you and your buddy have been saying the whole time. “I had no choice but to vote for genocide”. The implication is that Palestinians had to die. But this is a lie because the american people are collectively guilty of

1

The PFLP called on all people with a conscience to not vote for Harris or Trump in solidarity with Palestine

0

It was a bit redundant IMO, people with a conscience already know not to vote for genocide

0