Anonymous #5 17w

however I would 100% banish every mental health condition of mine in a HEARTBEAT

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Anonymous #5 17w

It doesn’t sound insensitive, this is why I asked the question. I study genetics and was recently pondering the ethics of designer babies for an assignment. Specifically where so draw the line of what traits are okay to remove and what isn’t. I was curious to see how people with different conditions view their conditions.

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Anonymous OP 17w

oh, wow lol, I sure hope you recognize that people not wanting their illnesses isn’t an effective argument in favor of eugenics. “since you’re disabled, would you have preferred to not be born in the first place” is a different question

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Anonymous #1 17w

Oh god no, that’s not what I’m saying at all! I’m not using any of this for any assignment, this was literally just a thought experiment. I do not promote eugenics in any form and STRONGLY believe that we should not be editing human dna at this point. But, we do currently have the tech to remove single gene mutations in embryos, but it’s illegal to do so (rightfully so).

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Anonymous OP 17w

These mutations can cause anything from cancer to some formed of chronic illnesses to eye color to being completely harmless. I think we can all agree that less cancer in the world would be a good thing but we should change eye color. What chronic illnesses should fall on ether side of that line was what I was thinking about, and bc I do not have all of the chronic illnesses I was asking people who do

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Anonymous OP 17w

I seriously cannot imagine why you would ask this question in pursuit of determining ethical boundaries on this subject unless you are specifically trying to use us as evidence that disabled people shouldn’t be born? please explain the thought process?

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Anonymous #1 17w

This was literally a thought that crossed my mind. My assignment has already been turned it, I wasn’t planing on showing this to anyone irl. It was a continuation of a hypothetical posed in my class

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Anonymous #1 17w

I personally draw the ethical line very narrowly, I think there are VERY few cases in which dna editing is okay. I’m talking like certain death cases. And I don’t think that we should be editing at all untill we have WAY more research than we have now

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Anonymous OP 17w

back up tho, you just said you were pondering the ethics of eugenics (“designer babies”) as an explanation of why you were asking this—how are you connecting those subjects

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Anonymous #1 17w

“this is why I asked the question. I study genetics and I was recently pondering the ethics of designer babies” how is “would you get rid of your illness” relevant to “designer babies”, then?

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Anonymous OP 17w

that’s. selectively breeding to “cleanse” a population of an unwanted trait is eugenics. you are proving my point…?

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Anonymous #1 17w

I used the term that I thought most people should be familiar with as short hand, I see now that was wrong and I should have been more detailed. I ment babies who have had dna edited to remove a deadly mutation as embryos

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Anonymous OP 17w

I have never before in my life seen the term “designer babies” used in earnest. people are plenty familiar with the term “eugenics”, you just will rightfully get people running far away from you if you pose that as a positive or neutral thing

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Anonymous OP 17w

no one here had a deadly mutation as an embryo, which you can tell because we’re alive. I’ll ask again: how is that relevant to whether or not chronically ill people want to be ill

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Anonymous #1 17w

I see that now, it was the term my professor and textbook used (which is a bit outdated I will say) I apologize

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Anonymous OP 17w

you aren’t going to learn much relevant perspectives on ethics from a dated textbook that uses the phrase “designer babies”. not even saying that to be snarky, your academic institution just sounds like it’s failing you if that’s the case

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Anonymous #1 17w

Oh I agree with you and we all actively hate the thing, but you need to study the history of your profession in order to properly practice and avoid the mistakes of the past

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Anonymous #1 17w

My personal ethics are agents editing for anything beyond a deadly mutation. However, these trials are already active. The first gene editing treatment was just approved for sickle cell.

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Anonymous OP 17w

I’ll ask again: how are fatal embryo mutations, which you pose as the situation in which selective human breeding is a good idea, relevant to whether or not disabled people want to be ill

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Anonymous OP 17w

I think it takes working in healthcare/ medical research to understand why this isn’t 100% bad. if I could have children without the worry of passing along vEDS to them, i absolutely would. this kind of research would be life changing for so many of us. it’s not that we “don’t deserve to live”, it’s that we deserve to live without a death sentence hanging over our heads+all future generations of ours. if we were talking about editing out a non life threatening gene that would be different

1

Anonymous #6 17w

I can accept the psoriasis bc that’s mild, and I can tolerate the migraines bc they’ve been mostly manageable. But gastroparesis can go off itself

1

Anonymous #5 17w

This, 100% this

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Anonymous #1 17w

you know no one here is going to be able to give you a firsthand perspective on dealing with fatal embryo mutations, right? I definitely don’t believe you were asking this for any reason other than to use our suffering as an argument for who is fair to breed out of existence, i.e. eugenics

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Anonymous OP 17w

are you chronically ill yourself?

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Anonymous #1 17w

Yes, I posted above. I have endometriosis stage 3-4. I also have an unknown heart issue that I have struggles with for over half of my life.

2

Anonymous #1 17w

we are not our illness though, eradicating a painful, life threatening illness is not eradicating US, just our suffering. if you could take a med to alleviate most of not all of your symptoms, you would most likely do it. so what is the difference between that and this conversation? as someone with a life threatening condition, I do not want a single person to go through this battle and I think that’s entirely valid, the real issue is this research ending up in the wrong hands.

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Anonymous #5 17w

we would not have been born if there was a system in place which encouraged people to aim by trial-and-error for healthy babies. different people would have been born. you are arguing in favor of eugenics

2

Anonymous #5 17w

“silly cripples wouldn’t understand because we aren’t The Doctor, who is all-knowing” is just self-loathing

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Anonymous #1 17w

girl what does this even mean… im chronically ill AND a medical professional, I’m not self loathing in the slightest, in fact quite the opposite. why would I want anyone to deal with the same death sentence as I have?? it would be selfish for me to have a child knowing I’d pass this along which is something I STILL struggle with, this research would allow me to have kids without that worry. literally WHY would you want conditions like mine to stay around…

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Anonymous #5 17w

I didn’t say I was my illness, I’m saying if your parents had opted for selective breeding that means you wouldn’t have been born in the first place

1

Anonymous #5 17w

oh my bad, it’s smug elitist gatekeeping condescension then, which is DRASTICALLY worse

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Anonymous #1 17w

Okay you need to go touch some grass and maybe read a book on the history of eugenics

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Anonymous #1 17w

…okay?? there would’ve never been a me without my life experiences, an embryo is NOT a fully developed, sentient human, are u a pro-lifer or something😭

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Anonymous #5 17w

so you weren’t saying “we as mere patients can’t understand the reality”, but rather “you peasants outside the medical field don’t have the capacity to understand”. you weren’t doing a direct internalized ableism, you were just reinforcing a hierarchy that flatters you. this has been a real nightmare of an interaction

1

Anonymous #1 17w

ah yes, my informed opinion goes against your beliefs so obviously I am evil. makes sense LOL

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Anonymous #1 17w

… homegirl you called me a cripple and are preaching about “internalized ableism”… have you ever heard of deflecting? you seem to be a BIG fan

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Anonymous #5 17w

did you just ask what the difference was between a hypothetical curative treatment and a speculative reality where the disabled person I am was never born. yeah I’m out, you two can resume your eugenics circlejerk in privacy

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Anonymous #5 17w

i called myself a cripple, i wouldn’t call you that because you seem pretty ashamed to be disabled

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Anonymous #1 17w

babe. ur acting like im not chronically ill myself. im gonna be dead within the next 20 years from this, sorry if i think itd be evil to impose that on someone else if theres the option not to??

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Anonymous #5 17w

you thinking that’s evidence I must be anti-abortion is just digging yourself deeper, holy shit

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Anonymous #1 17w

sharing my suffering with a life threatening illness ≠ being ashamed. sorry im not overjoyed about my life being cut short! glad you don’t have to experience that tho❤️

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Anonymous OP 17w

you’ve made your position perfectly clear, I don’t think I’ll take educational guidance from someone trying to convince me eugenics is cool

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Anonymous #5 17w

no, I understand perfectly well that you’re chronically ill. I guess I just struggle to understand everything else related to disability conversations though in your eyes since I’m not a doctor!

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Anonymous #5 17w

lol! thanks for invalidating my laundry list of diagnoses

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Anonymous #1 17w

importantly however, this is not the same as saying that I wish I’d never been born. I just want to be the person I am but have the pain and annoying dietary restrictions healed, which one would really think is what OP had been asking about

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Anonymous #5 17w

I was getting a pro-lifer vibe too, OP was very respectful and accountable and I actually HAVE heard the term “designer babies” Being born without an illness isn’t the same as not being born at all I’d say eugenics is“breeding” out genes that are harmless and subjective like ethnicity, not potentially fatal illnesses Some couples choose to not have kids if they have such illnesses in their family, I wonder if 1 sees them as eugenicists

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Anonymous #10 17w

You say this to say… what? We should all say no? They should’ve never asked? I don’t…?

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Anonymous #9 17w

i say this to say they should not be using the responses in an academic paper without respondents’ consent as they said they would in another thread

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Anonymous #9 17w

but if you’re asking, an appropriate post would be, for example “As a chronically ill person, do you believe eugenics should be used to prevent chronic illness? Please only answer if you consent to your anonymous response being used for academic research in X topic at Y University.” bc that is what their paper is actually about

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Anonymous #10 17w

They said here that the assignment was done and turned in when they asked this

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Anonymous #10 17w

They asked bc they were curious… I feel like coming for OP bc the way they worded it is unfair dawg like cmon… OP has a chronic illness and asked a question for our opinions - I really don’t think that’s crazy idk

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Anonymous #9 17w

turned in by the time they asked or by the time they commented that it was turned in? the question was intentionally misleading either way, and there was no reason to word it like that except to hook people into talking about eugenics, which is understandably upsetting for a lot of chronically ill people. you have to follow professional ethical standards in the sciences (most of which are self-regulating professions to various extents) whether you are ‘on the clock’ so to speak or not.

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Anonymous #10 17w

Mannnn if I were curious and had a question for the yak I’d ask it in plain English the way people could understand not in scientific jargon (that shit makes me feel like I’m in a lab 😮‍💨) Idk anything about OP’s original post so I can’t say anything But I feel like OP gave genuine apologies for all the things they’re being nitpicked on And they said the assignment was already done and turned in BEFORE they asked this and that they asked this question out of curiosity

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Anonymous #9 17w

I think chronically ill people asking other chronically ill people plain English questions they’re curious to hear real stories about is only fair

5