Anonymous jt777 16h

It’s very easy to bulk up on simple things like beans rice and tofu with a lot of seasonings. That’s been the staple for many indigenous societies for thousands of years

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Anonymous jt777 16h

Lentils, avocadoes, olive oil, cashews, nuts are all great fat sources

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Anonymous #2 16h

Completely false

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Anonymous OP 15h

Nuh uh. Where im from people are subsistence hunters/fishers. Deer are overpopulated in my area and in being stewards it is our responsibility to help manage populations while building back predator balance. Further, shellfish farming in my area necessitates stewardship and promotes healthy waters! Go pick some oysters and read a book, respectfully (except jk now is not a good time of year)

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Anonymous #2 15h

Further, its very important for stewardship, community wellbeing, and tribal sovereignty for Coast Salish meat eating practices to stay alive. Salmon, shellfish, and elk (among others) are important first foods in which reduced access implies environmental degradation and adverse health outcomes.

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Anonymous #2 15h

Also also believe it or not but where i am veganism is prohibitively expensive compared to meat diets and requires significantly more resources to get out there

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Anonymous #2 15h

The people defending this by bringing up indigenous people comes off as very disrespectful and “noble savage” type tropes. We live in a world where we have the ability to sustain ourselves without killing animals. The ecosystems were also balanced before humans showed up and killed off natural predators.

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Anonymous #2 15h

It’s also obtuse to bring up subsistence hunters when in this country outside of places like Alaska that is a very small percentage of people. The vast majority of people live in proximity to some sort of store that has basics in bulk such as beans+rice.

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Anonymous OP 15h

Im not invoking noble savage tropes i work in food sovereignty and tribal community health. There are much worse settler colonial implications to implying native communities do not need to be connected to first foods. We are active agents in the ecosystem and the "killing animals is unnecessary or unethical" places a settler dichotomy of humans v nature. To move towards sustainable stewardship we must not see ourselves as uniquely held to different ethical standards of meat eating in general

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Anonymous OP 15h

Its not obtuse if its my cultural background. Mainland united states. Its significantly more common than youd expect to rely on subsistence hunting for food, especially for those rural communities which struggle with food insecurity. Hunting and fishing can be community-based rituals of food resilience when poverty and access are limited. Obv im against factory farming but the "anyone can go vegan" rhetoric is reductive

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Anonymous #2 15h

How is it colonial to recognize animals are sentient beings that do not want to be killed full stop if we have the ability to sustain ourselves with foraging and agriculture then it is unethical to kill other sentient beings. For most of history including our native ancestors it was necessary because we did not have that ability. But societies change over time. Natural predators still do not have that ability. We should be working towards an equitable society for ALL sentient beings

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Anonymous #2 15h

There are many other indigenous traditions that we have foregone because we have recognized that they are oppressive. Societies change

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Anonymous #2 15h

If a community still has no access to food and has to resort to old ways of killing then that’s a failure of our capitalist system and instead of normalizing that killing we should work towards improving their conditions. Subsistence hunters and fishers wouldn’t have to kill animals to survive

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Anonymous OP 15h

Its colonial to push the "killing" animals rhetoric, that is a notorious argument used to deprive indigenous nations from their treaty rights and necessary practices. Id check out les beldo's chasing leviathan ab the makah whaling conflict or check out Swinomish's indigenous health indicators to learn more. If you saw our animal neighbors as true equals youd see importance of not distinguishing the ethicality human meat eating and animal meat eating. It can be a reciprocal relationship.

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Anonymous OP 15h

Oookay now youre being racist

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Anonymous #2 15h

I’m not being racist at all where did you get that from??? Every single culture has practices considered oppressive it’s not racist at all to point that out. Our own society is particularly egregious at many things the mass murder of animals just being one.

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Anonymous #2 15h

Practices like the murder of sentient beings wouldn’t be necessary if these communities weren’t discriminated against and economically disadvantaged in the first place by those same treaties.

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Anonymous #2 15h

There are so many other cultural and natural practices that communities have that don’t involve hunting or death

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Anonymous OP 15h

By saying that indigenous access to first foods should be left in the past?? I dont disagree about everything but specifically that rhetoric is a primary force of settler colonialism to destroy native culture via dispossessing them from first foods. Its not "old ways" that were abandoned because theyre antiquated it is because of genocide

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Anonymous OP 15h

And again. It isnt murder. Consider that there are ways of knowing that arent your own. Im not sure you understand how important salmon is to Coast Salish community health and more broadly Salish Sea ecology. Id learn up ab the fish wars. Its okay to not be familiar with the history but your ignorance is perpetuating settler colonial logics.

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Anonymous #2 14h

An animal being alive or not alive is a pretty straight forward and universal boundary. No animal wants its life taken whether by predators or by humans. Humans however have other food sources now the world has changed whether we like it or not!! We no longer need to cause suffering to other living beings anymore.

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Anonymous #2 14h

It’s not colonialism to point out if a cultural practice that is genuinely oppressive. Again there are so many oppressive practices amongst our own species involving gender race and other artificially created difference that have slowly gone away. Human sacrifice was once accepted in many societies all over the world at one point. For example europeans would burn women for being witches as a cultural practice

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Anonymous #2 14h

Of course there are many different ways to interpret the natural world other than our own but a constant is that the animals simply do not want to die. Our ways are violating their rights

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Anonymous OP 14h

Again thats just your perspective, which is pretty biased. Do you think omnivores who dont need it shouldnt eat meat? Many Coast Salish cosmologies see salmon as another family, and there is great respect taken in getting permission to fish and the reciprocity involved in eating them. There is nothing objectively or universally unethical about eating meat, you are applying a biased mindset to what you think others should think and behave to the extent that youre using genocide-enabling rhetoric

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Anonymous OP 14h

Hunting is not oppressive unless you believe there is an inherent hierarchy between humans and other beings and that a reciprocal and respect-based relationship is impossible

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Anonymous OP 2h

We don’t live in a world where we have the ability to sustain ourselves without killing animals. Plant-centered agriculture kills tons of animals. The pesticides kill insects and fish. The mechanical harvesting process kills birds and mammals. The transport of agricultural products by plane and truck contributes to climate change. I would argue it’s likely that eating locally harvested deer probably kills less animals than relying on industrially grown soy.

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Anonymous #5 2h

Further, the influence we have had on ecosystems requires the direct killing of animals either way. The spread of our suburbs has displaced wolves and other predators. *Something* needs to kill those deer. The same goes for invasive species. Either we kill them, or we allow greater environmental damage to occur.

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Anonymous #5 2h

Now I don’t like killing animals. I am extremely empathetic. I even avoid killing fish and insects whenever possible. I would like to live in a world where that was not necessary. I don’t hunt myself, and I barely ever fish. I do not feel that the death of an animal would be worth whatever enjoyment I might get out of it. But we don’t live in a world where we can avoid killing animals entirely.

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Anonymous #4 34m

Not to mention often dairy/beef cattle byproducts are necessary for organic farming and land is often rotated between cattle and vegetable land which is necessary for sustainable soil health

1