Anonymous #1 5w

… are you Jewish? Like a practicing Jew who reads the Torah?

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Anonymous OP 5w

not practicing. but i follow and learn from many practicing jews who do read the torah

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Anonymous #1 5w

Okay. If you were a practicing Jew you’d know that Israel is a part of Judaism. We pray facing the western wall. Our holidays are about being persecuted and returning to Israel. The center of our being is Israel. Believing that Israel has a right to exist and we have a right to return, aka Zionism, is a core Jewish belief. However people have politicised Zionism is not what it means originally with its religious intent. Believing in Israel’s existence does not go against Judaism.

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Anonymous #1 5w

If you want to include Judaism I would say people like bibi and some members of his cabinet. Or mention kahanists. Or neturei karta. But not zionists.

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Anonymous OP 5w

israel in the torah is not the same as israel the settler-colonial ethnostate btw. the modern zionist movement was born in 1897 with the intent of exiling arabs from the land. to call yourself a zionist is to align with that belief. to return to the holy israel, jews must wait for the messiah.

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Anonymous #2 5w

girl…. that’s enough out of you

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Anonymous OP 5w

I am a practicing Jew, Political Zionism violated the three oathes and this is heretical to Jewish law.

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Anonymous #2 5w

The United States was founded on secularism and the ideas of the enlightenment. Christian nationalists do not support the freedom of religion and speech we have in this country. Read Thomas Jefferson and compare his ideas on religion to what Christian Nationalists advocate for

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Anonymous #1 5w

Israel is not a settler colonial ethnostate… Jews are indigenous so they aren’t settler colonial. It is not an ethnostate because others other religions are free to practice there. Zionism does not have the intent of exiling arabs. If anything there’s 57 Islamic ethnostates but I’m sure you have nothing to say about that. Their govs exile non Muslims but I’m sure you have nothing to say about that. Jews must wait for the return? Jews aren’t Christian waiting for Jesus

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Anonymous #3 5w

I’m not talking about political Zionism

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Anonymous OP 5w

I shouldn’t have specified, Zionism in general is a violation to the three oaths, we are forbidden from returning to the holy land by force and we are forbidden from returning en masses before the arrival of the Messiah (which I assume you are not arguing had happened)

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Anonymous OP 5w

An ethnostate does not mean there can be zero people of another religion or ethnicity, it means there is a mandated dominance of one ethnicity in its politics that will he enforced by whatever means. Zionism is built on mandated Jewish political dominance which, for Israel to maintain the lápices of a democracy, has required ethnic cleansing and other such policies to maintain an artificial ethnic majority, which they generally aim to be about 80% of the electorate to ensure political control

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Anonymous OP 5w

I would probably agree that Kahanists are a more appropriate comparison to Christian Nationalists than Zionists are, especially seeing as Zionism is not a religious ideology in the first place, but on the flip side there are a lot of Christian Nationalists who basically wan the US to be the way with Christianity that Israel is with Judaism, so maybe it is an appropriate comparison 🤷‍♀️

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Anonymous OP 5w

when you validate the existence of the current country israel, you are talking about political zionism, which is settler-colonial, regardless of the indigenous argument. theodor herzl who is known as the father of modern zionism (the zionism related to the existence of the current state of israel) even described it himself as colonization. #3 has replied to the rest of your comment, but please don’t use whataboutism right now, bc we aren’t talking about islam and you don’t know my views on that

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Anonymous #1 5w

i’m also only differentiating between “political” and “religious” zionism because i feel like you’re using the term colloquially to describe the importance of the kingdom of israel in judaism. the term itself though like #3 said is political at its core, and only currently a religious domination of some orthodox jews, which came about in the last two centuries. abraham isaac kook stated that jews would have to establish the “homeland” first, and then the messiah would come, which

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Anonymous #1 5w

is antithetical to the actual scripture. the term zionism and the definition of it aren’t a part of the torah.

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Anonymous #1 5w

You claim I shouldn’t use whataboutism but that’s exactly what you’re doing now. My original post was about Islamism and Christian nationalism, you pulled the what about Zionists card… settler colonialism is when one group tries replacing the indigenous group according to the dictionary. So if Jews are the indigenous group then they can’t be the settler colonialists 🤦🏼‍♀️

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Anonymous #1 5w

Returning to the land of Israel is in the Torah. Centering multiple holidays around Israel is in the Torah. Religious Zionism is the true and original form. Political Zionism is a fringe deviant. Just like Christianity isn’t Christian nationalism, religious Zionism is not political Zionism. Being against Jewish self determination is antisemitic. Being against Israel’s mere existence is antisemitism.

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Anonymous OP 5w

i did not pull “what about” zionism. i said zionism too so not the same as judaism. there’s a reason there are so many antizionist jews. i honestly did not think you would disagree. i highly encourage you to research the history of zionism and look at the actual definition of settler-colonialism. theodor herzl himself called it colonization, and it uses genocide to displace the palestinians. no one would be calling jews going to palestine settler-colonialism if they didn’t

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Anonymous #1 5w

violently force out the people who already live there, who are indigenous

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Anonymous #1 5w

You did. My post was about radical Islam and Christianity. You mentioned Zionism which is whataboutism. Again, Jews are indigenous to judea and Palestinians are indigenous to the Arabian peninsula such as Jordan and Egypt. Jews are the indigenous group to Israel, not Palestinians. Jews returning to Israel was not them settling and exiling Palestinians. It was not a violent displacement, it was the arabs to violently attacked Jews upon return

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Anonymous OP 5w

whataboutism is used to discredit and deflect criticism. it suggests that a wrong isn’t wrong because of some other wrong. i didn’t discredit what you said at all, i actually totally agree with your original post. i added something to it, which is not whataboutism. also, palestinians are indigenous to palestine. i won’t argue that. however, i think you have some critical information wrong, because it was a violent displacement and this is well documented. have you heard of the nakba in 1948?

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Anonymous #1 5w

I’ve heard about the nakba. Have you heard about the Hebron massacre where arabs attacked/killed 67 Jews? Faija bus attack killing 7 Jews? Haifa massacre killing 39 Jews? Hadassah massacre killing 79 Jews? Kfar etzion massacre killing 157 Jews? Let’s not act as if Israel is 100% the aggressor/oppressor and Palestine is 100% the victim/oppressed.

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Anonymous OP 5w

so if you’ve heard about the nakba why would you say it wasn’t a violent displacement?

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Anonymous #3 5w

Not even comparable to the deplorable things CURRENTLY happening overseas.

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