
Iâm convinced that the reason certain gay men think they are above women is because they havenât dismantled the influence the patriarchy had on them. Like sweetie, go try and be a top bitch among men, bc we donât do that here. Itâs like they realize âoh I can push these ones around now because THEY are helpless instead of meâ. Try me bitch, Iâll throw down
Holy sexist, not just OP but all the comments. You made this unnecessarily gendered as hell. You put forth the narrative thatâs its cause theyâre a man itâs not okay. If they were a woman it would be? It shouldnât be okay in general. It kinda seems like you just donât like men. No need to attack an entire group, because youâre uncomfortable with their sex.
Well trans men arenât as talked about because they donât usually need to be the center of attention. My friends who are trans men donât act like that. They also donât demand to play in menâs sports and call men things like penis haver but yall arenât ready to talk about that
as a girl who is very pro lgbtq+ and supportive of trans people, trans women are still women, but theyre not biologically women. there is a difference𫩠trans women are still women, trans men are still men, but theyre not biologically women. the hormone levels are drastically different, gender affirming surgeries exist but i still dont know if that counts as being biologically a woman bc its surgery
Theyâre biologically women. Theyâre not made of fucking plasma or igneous rock. And congrats on still pushing transphobic bullshit about hormones when you donât understand HRT! Also, surgeries are not required nor does everyone need them. But they were originally created for cis women. There is ZERO possible ways to categorise all cis women in one way and exclude all trans women without there being exceptions. Because life isnât that simple. Biology isnât simple.
Making one simple decision off of one comment about someone is very funny. You donât even know me. Iâm done responding to youâŚgo do some homework better yourself, focus on someone that isnât me. Iâm taking up wayyy too much of your energy do something better. Iâm done.
I was born female, and the experiences that come with being biologically female have shaped my life in ways that someone who was not born female cannot fully experience firsthand. Acknowledging that difference is not the same as denying someone elseâs identity. We can respect one another while still recognizing that our biological realities and lived experiences are not identical
No I get your comment. Youâre mad gay men are disrespecting women. Itâs your reasoning for why gay men donât have the right to disrespect women, that makes it sexist and gendered. Your reasoning for why itâs wrong is cause theyâre a man, thatâs all. Not anything noble like itâs wrong to disrespect people in general. Just cause theyâre a man. I understand your feelings, but the wording of how you said it is why you have so many comments.
You were assigned female at birth and raised in a more stereotypical way that aligns with it and your sense of gender and expression. Good for you. Still doesnât make other women any less biological or any less of women. Theyâre shaped by their womanhood and experiences from birth just like you are. Your experience wouldnât even the same even for an identical twin. You cannot claim all cis women have the same experiences and that no trans woman shares in that, period. Stop pushing the BS.
Sure, but my issue is that this post essentially insinuates thereâs some huge problem with gay men being misogynist, despite gay men overall treating women very well. And just ignoring the fact that itâs about the opposite for lesbian women. They are open about their hatred for men and itâs tolerated by other women. Throwing stones from a glass house kinda thing
This whole thread is just proof that everyone wants to be a bigger victim nowadays. Everyone has it bad! Lots of things need to change itâs not just one group that gets affected. We should all be able to find common ground on the fact that life for everyone sucks and itâs the very few people at the top who make it that way.
I will say historically gay men can be very catty for lack of a better term, and a lot of issues with lesbian and misandry is the same with gay men and misogyny. Misogyny is just much more normalized in modern society, unfortunately. It's something worth talking about though in many threads here it's devolving simply into "I hate men, all men are privileged and evil" rhetoric, which is counterproductive
Women have spent generations fighting to have their voices, experiences, boundaries, and rights recognized. I think it is fair to question whether, in certain conversations, the emphasis on validating one groupâs identity comes at the expense of listening to biological womenâs perspectives. Recognizing transgender womenâs experiences should not require biological women to silence or minimize their own. There should be room for both conversations without one invalidating the other.
Just so you know, certain evidence suggests that transgender folks are also, in certain ways, biologically the gender they are even if their genitals or chromosomes don't say the same thing. Also, XX and XY are not the only chromosome combinations, and intersex variations exist. Gender and sex aren't black and white, it's very neat!
That's the ai overview :) you gotta scroll a bit. It's better to find scientific papers and studies. If it's something you're curious about challenging, it can be interesting to actually learn more about biology! Fun fact, more people are intersex than we even realize! And being transgender is as common (if not more common) than being a redhead
Thatâs a cool fact! I am reading up on some other articles, Iâm still seeing mostly from the point of scientists that biological women is a term for female chromosomes,hormones,etc. so what argument is 7 making? The take away from them seems to be that anyone can be biological to whichever sex. That trans women are biological women too but they lack DNA of that? What is your overview of it?
DNA is very tricky! There's a suck thing as X0, XY, XX, XXY, XXXY, etc chromosomes, there's such things as intersex women who were assigned women at birth but still consider themselves trans because they had to do some things to feel comfortable, and then there's the average trans woman who is typically born XY or some similar variationâthough when born, their brains are configured *to be women* and receive estrogen their body won't make. In this way, they too are biologically women. :)
Also, bioessentialism has long been used to justify slavery, racism, and misogyny, so when a trans person hears "biologically male/female", it's usually a dog whistle for transphobia and bad intentions. Similar ideas of "biologically _" have been used to claim black people are stupider than white people, or that women are dainty and pathetic compared to men, etc. At the end of the day, our bones all look the same. It's who we were in life that matters
So it seems like thereâs two conversations in this thread that arenât speaking with each other. Some of it sounds like it is deep rooted and looks at science from a smaller viewpoint and the other is focused on the aftermath of birth. Is that the two different view points being shown as a whole and thus causing the discourse ? Thank you for taking your time to educate me further!
I find that trans men have a fundamentally different relationship to biological womanhood, having been born female and experienced life through that lens, than trans women who were born male. I also think trans men deserve a meaningful voice in conversations surrounding biological sex, womenâs experiences, and gender identity. Ultimately, everyone is entitled to their own identity and perspective, but that doesnât mean we have to abandon the distinctions between them. To each their own.
Every voice is important. We learn nothing from hearing the same rhetoric over and over again. Only by broadening our horizons can we truly learn. The things my transfem friend loves about her femininity are the same things a transmasc friend may hate, and together they teach the other to learn to be kinder, more open, and more loving of themselves and others and I think that's neat :)
Gender identity is a conversation worth having, or âneat,â but women have spent generations fighting, sacrificing, and dying for a seat at the table. I donât want the fight for womenâs rights, bodily autonomy, safety, and recognition of our lived experiences to become secondary. There is room for both conversations, but women should not have to fight to be heard all over again.
All women deserve rights. Picking and choosing which women are more deserving is what ends up with a divided society that can be picked off easily. We're ALL marginalized, so racism and transphobia has no place in an already fractured demographic. True change comes with uniting with our brothers and sisters to fight for everyone, not just the perfect cishet white woman's rights. THATS what my comments all insinuate.
Iâm talking about biological womenâs rights, bodily autonomy, reproductive freedom, and sex-based protections. We watched Roe v. Wade get overturned, and women are still fighting for control over their own bodies. I donât think itâs unreasonable to question why conversations about biological womenâs rights and spaces so often become redirected into debates about gender identity. These issues deserve to be discussed on their own merits without automatically labeling disagreement as prejudice.
Okay? Again, why does that have to do with... not being transphobic? Also gender identity is an important thing to talk about? The people overturning reproductive rights are the same bigots who are killing trans people. They hate any minority, not just the "convenient" ones. These conversations can happen side by side without lessening each other's values. Also, someone ELSE literally turned it into a bioessentialist debate about genitals and such. I'm just offering my perspective?
I find it funny that you literally state you believe "trans men deserve a meaningful voice in conversations surrounding biological sex [...]" considering I AM a trans man. So which is is, is this a conversation we can have, as per your first response in this thread, or is it something that is ""overshadowing"" the conversation you want? You can fight for BOTH. Bigots hate us BOTH. You can't fight for the rights of one minority and disregard the other. The oppressors will never be kind
Yeah so Iâm saying this thread looks to me that itâs focusing on two different issues at hand. One person is arguing about micro level science about genetics while the other is arguing over physical attributes- thatâs how Iâm viewing this comment section now and wanted to know if that was right
It can be hard to differentiate the two I feel. Many transphobes will do something called "transvestigating" which is deciding certain attributes have certain sexes tied to them, and therefore cis folks can be targeted by transphobic attacks. Then on a more biologically scaleâbiology is all sorts of weird. As humans, we want things to fit in perfectly neat black and white boxes, but that's rarely the case! The world is weird and wonderful, and to think in terms of "one" or the "other" limits us
LMAO me when iâm a fucking idiot. no where did anyone say âwomen are incapable of sexual assault.â them sharing their experiences with gay men being touchy â saying women are incapable of doing the same thing. since you clearly lack reading comprehension skills, go back to middle school english and try again sweetie
Me when Iâm part of the literacy crisis and canât utilize context clues. Letâs look at the post itself and what their responding to and recognize when itâs appropriate to share an experience. If yall said âWhy are they so touchyâ in response to âGay men are just menâ in real life, youâd be met with the same response that women are just as âtouchyâ as gay men âsupposedlyâ. Itâs so obvious you idiots live online and donât go outside lmao
first of all, talking about the literacy crisis, yet canât use the fight form of âtheyâreâ is absolutely hilarious. the post is about gay men being disrespectful to women, and women shared their experiences with gay men being overly touchy aka BEING DISRESPECTFUL. the fact that you felt so called out that you felt the need to respond to someone elseâs personal experience with âwell women do it tooâ is so incredibly telling. like youâre seriously just loud and slow and thatâs crazy đ¤Ł
when you make the assumption: âwhy are they so touchy?â youâre directly implying that gay men are more touchy than straight women, when I know tons of gay men who have been physically harassed by women and would say the same thing. It begs the question of whether this is actually sharing an experience or just dog whistling vitriol against gay men cause letâs be real, yall are just as homophobic as straight men.
Girl itâs 4am, I canât be bothered to spell check, but I do know homophobia when I see it, which yall are wasting no time to air out btw. Yall wouldnât say half the shit on this thread isnât exclusive to gay men and yall are just being hateful for no reason. The reason I say women do it too is because the threads topic is respect? Respect goes both ways but tiktok feminists here clearly want to circle jerk and hate on gay men, when yall are just as bad if not worse than gay men in terms of rspct
right, the âitâs too earlyâ excuse lmao. itâs not too early to be an asshole, but itâs too early to use âtheyâreâ instead of âtheirâ đ¤Łđ¤Ł also, the threads topic is not respect, itâs gay men disrespecting women. the fact that youâre a gay man in girl talk in the first place is quite literally proving OPâs point. youâre trying to sit there and cry homophobia and say ârespect goes both waysâ and play the victim while you are actively disrespecting a womenâs spaceâŚ.the jokes write themselves
Itâs also ironic how straight women who historically have fetishized gay men (via industries like boys love/yaoi) are talking about gay men being touchy when yall have funded a multi billion dollar porn industry ran on the sexuality of gay men. Yall have no problem using our sexuality as an aesthetic but when it comes to disrespect, yall love to emphasize something that both men and women are capable of doing (sexual assault) as if itâs exclusive to gay men. Girl byeâŚ
The post got put in my recommended, and say that to the gay clubs that are constantly overrun by straight women who invade gay male spaces, yall are just as guilty of that too, except the difference is you intentionally invade ours. Straight women are the fattest hypocrites lmaoo
like youâre so fucking stupid bro omg. my whole point is that no one said women are innocent creatures who do no wrong so you commenting âwomen do bad things tooâ is dumb and unnecessary. we know women do awful things. iâm sure at least one woman in this thread have been harmed by another woman in some way, shape, or form. this post was talking experiences with gay men being disrespectful. if you want to say something about women, make your own post about it in your own space
or yall can just stop being weird, because half the shit in this thread can be applied both way and yall are getting way too comfortable attacking other minorities for literally no reason? Itâs one thing to call it out, but when you go for gay men specifically, it makes no sense and itâs just insanely hypocritical. Call me stupid all you want, but this entire thread couldâve been a phone call. Just dumb women looking for villains.
youâre continuing to prove OPs point with each ignorant comment you make. yall are just as disgusting, disrespectful, and misogynistic as straight men. if not worse bc at least they donât try to hide it and act like weâre united but then get all pissy and throw a fit the second they get called out
Clearly you do since you have our community in your mouths 24/7, despite using our culture and sexualities like toys (historical and economic basis btw) but you canât say the same when we look at the stats for gay men crime against straight women (because itâs so low that it puts into question whether the hatred in this thread is real or just a dog whistle for homophobia)