Anonymous #1 1d

you didn’t read the comment I tacked on, I take it for one, nazis overtook the skinhead punk scene to the extent that now most people think of it as an Exclusively white supremacist thing. also, saying “the fascists in the punk scene weren’t Really punks” is just a “no true Scotsman” fallacy also, you think Vivienne Westwood sold expensive clothing to celebrities because she was what, a principled anti-capitalist?

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Anonymous OP 1d

No I read it, it just doesn’t really change anything. Like the basic idea is still that facists infiltrated and ruined the reputation of a leftist scene, which is what I just said. Like you’re still not a punk if you’re a facist lying to get into a punk space. You can point to a fallacy as much as u want but that doesn’t change that.

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Anonymous #1 1d

no, the bottom line is that skinhead is a type of punk, and a very significant number of skinheads are nazis. you’re just spitting thought-terminating cliches, and how am I supposed to take your knowledge of historical context seriously when you don’t even know how to spell the word “fascist”?

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Anonymous OP 1d

Oh my fucking god bro engage with my argument instead of playing grammar police. This is such a lame position to take when we’re on the same side.

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Anonymous #1 1d

I’m not convinced you even took a second to google what that fallacy is referring to, and I notice you didn’t have anything to say re: Vivienne Westwood. your confidence in your own perspective is unwarranted, you’re parroting a convenient feel-good talking point popularized by naive baby bats. maybe circle back to this conversation after you graduate or something

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Anonymous #1 1d

are you really trying to claim now that Vivienne Westwood isn’t relevant to punk…? and I was perfectly clear about not wanting fascists in our scenes, so that’s a reading comprehension issue on your part. I just know you’re the same person crashing out at me in that poll thread

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Anonymous #1 1d

I’ve been doing nothing But engage with your argument, but I’ll go ahead and disengage now!

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Anonymous OP 22h

punk is inherently left. right wingers co-opting aesthetics is literally a core part of their cultural strategy. they do this with queer aesthetics, black aesthetics and more. doesn't make them queer, nor black, nor punk. and it's not a "no true scotsman" when it is a *definitional* issue. punk is by its nature anti-establishment and the establishment has always been racist, misogynistic, homophobic, ableist, etc.. we literally inspired nazi germans and pardoned nazis after WWII for science

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Anonymous #2 22h

"nazi punks fuck off" isn't a concession that nazis are authentic punks by any means

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Anonymous #2 21h

for one, appropriating the culturally-rooted aesthetics of an oppressed demographic is really not even remotely comparable to emulating the aesthetics of a subculture, but even more than that: seriously, what do you think a skinhead is if not a type of punk? there’s the SHARP variety and there’s the nazi variety and unfortunately both are skinheads. the valorized & idealistic notion of punk that you’re subscribed to is retrospective flattery. it’s a very nice idea and little more

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Anonymous #2 21h

it’s clear to me that you haven’t been engaging in earnest with any of the points I raised if you think you need to be the one to tell me that “the establishment” is violently bigoted. that reality is at least two degrees of separation away from the point I’m making. Johnny Ramone was always a conservative, acts like X or The Misfits weren’t operating off any kind of explicitly political ethos, Vivienne Westwood is a sellout. none of that should be news to you

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Anonymous #2 21h

the talk of “authentic punks” is very much the Scotsman fallacy I was referring to because you are posing a dichotomy that does not reflect the material reality of the scene itself, past or present I would love to direct you to the string of lengthy comments I wrote yesterday further debunking this rosy misconception about innate political alignment re: goth & punk in the quoted post, but those are gone because the OP admitted I was right, thanked me for educating them, and deleted the post

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Anonymous #2 21h

all this being the case, let’s circle back to the fact that the goth subculture’s relationship to punk involves even a Further abstraction of the ties to leftist ethos. how the fuck do we end up with acts like Death in June being played at goth club nights consistently since the 80s if goth is “inherently” leftist? look, obviously I agree these bastards Shouldn’t be embraced. the problem is that effective progress in the future is less attainable if we keep lying to ourselves about the past

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Anonymous #4 16h

nothing but support for the message! in terms of very straightforwardly antifascist classics, I’m personally partial to Racist Friend by The Specials 😌🖤

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Anonymous #1 12h

You should probably talk about John Lydon…

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