Anonymous #1 14w

Claiming we use defense as an excuse, but it’s true. Iran and their proxies have been attacking Israel. This response is Israel defending itself from constant attacks.

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Anonymous OP 14w

exactly. we are fighting a seven front war right now and it’s iran’s fault. iranian nuclear enrichment is a death sentence for israel and christian’s in the middle east

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Anonymous #1 14w

Claiming Israel started it, disrupted peace. But it’s Iran who have been attacking Israel. It’s Iran who refuses to agree to peace.

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Anonymous #2 14w

although it’s really moreso the us empire especially considering the us empire controls many of israel’s geopolitical decisions and strongly benefit from this agtack

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Anonymous #3 14w

Israel is not a proxy for Jews in the Middle East. If you think Israel’s reputation in the Middle East as an aggressor is just about “Jews fighting back,” I’d encourage you to talk to some Lebanese Jews, most of whom fled the country after Israel invaded and bombed the last synagogue in Beirut in 1982 (which was being guarded by Arafat’s PLO, interestingly enough) It’s easy to miss a lot of the nuances on these conflicts when we collapse the experience of Jews in the ME into a monolith

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Anonymous #3 14w

And that synagogue was repaired from that bombing in 2014 with the financial backing of a lot of the Lebanese Jewish diaspora who had left the country following the Israeli invasion and the support of the Lebanese government… as well as Hezbollah (an organization that has caused it’s fair share of terror itself, but has to also be understood in the context it formed as resistance to Israeli invasion)

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Anonymous #3 14w

That is, or course, not to say Hezbollah or Iran are good actors here either, by any means. but just that it’s more complicated that a situstion of “Jews defending ourselves” and that all the major players in the region are deeply flawed actors with a lot of problems, including Israel (especially under the current government with that “greater Israel” nonsense)

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Anonymous #3 14w

Israel also has a reason to attack. The ME hates Israel, Jews, democracy, & the west. They want it all destroyed and killed. They’ve developed terrorist groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, etc. their regimes brutally oppress their own ppl too. Such as the brutal oppression in Iran & Afghanistan.

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Anonymous OP 14w

When you flatten an entire region into one “them,” and you flatten the stories and beliefs and values of many people and groups with a myriad of beliefs and motivations into one set of motivations, you are always going to get a very misleading picture of what’s happening. It’s just like when people act like all Israelis or even all of us Jews are like Ben-Gvir or Smotricth. The Middle East is a diverse place with myriad motivations and goals, just like anywhere else

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Anonymous #3 14w

I’m referring to the Islamic republic of Iran. Their regime needs to be destroyed.

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Anonymous OP 14w

By their own people, yes, if it is Israeli that destroys it then it will be replaced by one that is worse, far worse And Iran didn’t create all those groups you referred to, those groups were created on their own and Iran just provides some of their funding Hezbollah was created as a resistance to Israel’s invasion and occupation, and was the only one of those groups Iran was actually involved in the formation of you might’ve been intending to talk about Iran, but you were saying was the ME

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Anonymous #3 14w

The Islamic republic of Iran is already horrible. Israel tried negotiating for peace and they refused. Iran is the one acting as the primary funder of terrorism in the ME. Without their regime, the others will fall. Leading to a better, safer, and more peaceful region. Even if you think Hezbollah was created on good merits, they aren’t anymore.

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Anonymous OP 14w

I have no doubt that Iran wouldn’t agree to peace with Israel, but Israel hasn’t tried to make any peace deal in Iran either. This is an escalation that makes Israelis and everyone in the ME less safe, all because Netanyahu knows that if war ends, he’ll be thrown in prison for corruption, so he will secure endless war by whatever means he can

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Anonymous #3 14w

It’s not a random escalation. Iran has been relentlessly threatening Israel, bombing Israel, and funding terrorism against Israel. Now that they’re getting closer to nukes, Israel had to respond to avoid a huge attack. An attack that would make everyone in the ME be less safe.

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Anonymous OP 14w

israel had been relentlessly bombing palestine

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Anonymous OP 14w

You mean like what happened when the US took out Saddam Hussein? Iran is also one of the primary opponents and key countries in fighting ISIS, Iran is a big founder of a few terrorist groups, it is a major opponent and suppressor of others. You don’t get peace by just going around trying to topple other countries’ governments, the US tried that with the war on terror and it was an abject failure, even if there were brief better governments, they soon led to something worse

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Anonymous #2 14w

As terrorist troops in Palestine have been relentlessly attacking Israel and refusing to release the hostages.

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Anonymous OP 14w

they have offered to release the hostages multiple times for a ceasefire

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Anonymous OP 14w

It’s just like when Israel thought the PLO was so horrible and thought if the PLO was weakened and fell it could be safe and have peace and so funded a different Palestinian group to counter the PLO, and that group became Hamas, this is what always happens

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Anonymous #3 14w

Iran is keeping terrorist groups in the ME running. If the Islamic republic of Iran falls, it is likely the other groups will follow. When they’re down that opens opportunity to negotiate for peace

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Anonymous #2 14w

Never entirely. Always partial releases where they get way more people back than we do.

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Anonymous #3 14w

It’s one thing to take out smaller fish like Hamas than bigger fish like the IRI..

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Anonymous OP 14w

The majority of terrorist grouped in the Middle East are Sunni Islamist Jihadists, like ISIS and Al-Qaeda, they are generally fought by Iran. Just like deposing Sadan Hussein created a power vacuum that lead to the rise of ISIS, deposing the Iranian government would do the same for another group. Look at even just recent history, this is what always happens, regime change is a failed strategy

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Anonymous #3 14w

That is a valid fear. My hopes is that if one of the main proprietors of terrorism in the ME is eliminated that it will open a window to peace agreements. But there is the opportunity for other groups to rise and take their place. Hopefully this action will have good results, if not, it’ll at least remove a portion of the problem. What do you suggest?

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Anonymous OP 14w

I think we underestimate how much worse things can get than the current Iranian government, especially given people who were bombed by a foreign country and having their leaders killed them don’t generally develop positive feelings towards that country, even if they don’t like their leadership themselves, it’s a different dynamic than when a foreign government backs a popular movement to revolt against their government (although the problem can occur there too)

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Anonymous OP 14w

As for what I suggest, I don’t have the most concrete plan since I don’t have much influence there, but to focus on Palestinians and Hamas specifically: I’d generally say a big one is freeing the non-violent or les violent and more reasonable Palestinian political leaders in the hopes that they can create a new alternative to Hamas and Fatah, the main reason Hamas has the support it does is the corruption in Fatah with Abbas and Palestinians feeling like they & the PA have not delivered for them

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Anonymous #3 14w

If there is a more peaceful alternative that doesn’t have the corruption of Abbas that Israel can make deals and have political conflict with to better the conditions in the West Bank and ideally Gaza as well—although the latter is trickier aside from less bombardment—Hamas will lose a lot of their support and recruitment base, since they will no longer be seen as their only real “resistance” to Israel. It won’t completely eliminate the support for Hamas but would be a better alternative

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Anonymous #3 14w

It’s like the JFK quote “those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable,” to have peace Palestinians need to feel like they have a peaceful movement that can deliver for them, and it might be able to achieve some things we don’t want but we need it to have that opportunity to allow a real alternative to the terror of Hamas and groups like it

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Anonymous OP 14w

I also think if there could be some kind of Palestinian state—while that would not solve the problem—Israel would be able to form real substantive alliances with countries that have shared geopolitical interests like Saudi Arabia that also hates Iran and the Houthis and if a Palestinian state had to operate its own diplomacy and foreign policy it’d have to take sides in other middle eastern issues that would make it no longer as much of an Israel vs everyone else dynamic when it comes to them

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Anonymous OP 14w

I don’t think those things would solve the problem of conflict at all, but I do think they would bring things in a better direction than now I also think pulling out the IDF from the West Bank, the presence of which was also a big part of why Israel didn’t have the necessary troops at the Gaza border to defend itself on October 7th

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Anonymous OP 14w

(To be clear I don’t think an immediate Palestinian state right now would necessarily go well, I think it’d likely wind up either as an autocracy or with significant presence from Hamas given that whole they are unpopular in Gaza especially there isn’t really a viable alternative at the moment which has broad popularity, but I think releasing nonviolent popular Palestinian political leaders could help shift those dynamics, and if they could successfully negotiate real autonomy they’d be popular

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Anonymous #3 14w

I get what you’re saying. There needs to be a peaceful alternative for Palestinian leadership that can help their people live better lives. But I think Hamas is a barrier to that. Since they steal aid and attack aid trucks which prevents Palestinians from receiving it. Refusing to agree to peace which affects Palestinians. Attacking the GHF who want to give Palestinians aid. Using them as human shields, embedding bases in civilian areas, and encouraging martyrs.

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Anonymous OP 14w

I think the peaceful alternative would do better to be based out of the West Bank. Hamas is pretty unpopular in Gaza because the people there have directly experienced their governance and tactics, they’ve been gaining popularity in the West Bank because many people there had family members imprisoned like kids who through rocks at tanks who Hamas has secured the release of. If there was a peaceful alternative that could wrest control of the PLO with some legitimacy things’d be different

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Anonymous #3 14w

It’s hard bc I’ve seen a mix of both. Videos of some Palestinians opposing them bc of how they’re treated under their rule. Other videos of Palestinians cheering in parades after Israelis are killed and participating in their murder. I think it’s bc some groups like unrwa indoctrinate them to hate Israelis/Jews.

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Anonymous OP 14w

Hamas also relies on the assumption Israel would never release those leaders for its legitimacy, it has asked as a demand in deals with Israel for them to release some of those figures to build their support amongst Palestinians who disagree with them, since it makes it seem like they have the seem ends even if different tactics, having that alternative even in the West Bank diffuses that

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Anonymous OP 14w

There is certainly a mix of both from different groups, but UNRWA does not indoctrinate Palestinians to hate Israelis or Jews You need to understand that no matter what justifications Israel has, when a country drops bombs that destroy your home and murder your family most people are gonna really hate that country, be they Palestinian or Israeli or anyone else, and there are certainly groups that also indoctrinate other hate

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Anonymous #3 14w

Yes, they do. There’s been evidence of unrwa indoctrinating kids into hating Israel and Jews.

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Anonymous OP 14w

There are people at UNRWA funded schools that do, yes, but UNRWA itself certainly is not

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Anonymous #3 14w

I was referring to unrwa schools in Palestine. But also other forms of indoctrination. Rawan Osman who is Syrian and Lebanese, Sophia Khalifa an Arab Muslim, Mosab Hassan Yousef son of co-founder of Hamas, etc. all examples of middle easterners who have come forward about the antisemitic indoctrination in their countries.

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Anonymous OP 14w

Another point is make about regime change in Iran is that initially even during the Iranian revolution that brought the current government to power it had the support of the Jewish community in Iran, and while today the relations are less good than they were there the Jewish community in Iran they still aligned with the government even during the 2022 protests, let alone against Israel (the degree to which they do is likely exaggerated for protection, but their anti-Zionism predates this regime)

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There’s a difference between hating the US government vs their very vocal support of wanting our entire country and our civilians unalived 🤯

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Not what I was saying. Israel has tried negotiating for peace and it failed. So Israel needs to eliminate the Islamic republic of Iran so that the civilians in the Middle East can be safer from Iran’s terror.

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Not what I said. I said eliminating a regime that makes them unsafe is the goal. Precisely attacking military bases in order to cave their terrorist organization. Without the regime, civilians will be safer.

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They were preventing Iran’s planned escalation. They were getting closer to acquiring nukes. Which would lead to middle easterners to be wayyyy more unsafe. Especially when Israel targets military bases while Iran indiscriminately targets civilian areas.

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“The Zionist regime that is a lethal, dangerous, cancerous tumor should certainly be eradicated, and it will be.” Sureee, bc Iran is soo peaceful and promote safety 😐

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Allowing them to go unchecked and get their hands on nukes will also lead to more dead people across the board tho

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Almost as if these negotiations are extremely unfair towards Israel. Such as only getting small numbers of Israelis back while Palestinian prisoners get hundreds 🤯

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Anonymous OP 14w

almost as if there are way more palestinian prisoners than israeli

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Anonymous #2 14w

Almost as if there is not a moral equivalency between Israeli civilians and Palestinians convicted of crimes

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No. Having partial hostage release deals is what I’m calling unfair.

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I’m talking about the ceasefire between Hamas and Israel. How the proposed deals with that have been unfair.

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Anonymous #1 13w

This is demonizing Iran. Iran has been there for 2000 years.

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Anonymous OP 13w

Iran is not going to use nuclear weapons on Islamic holy sites, they are not going to be using a nuclear weapon on Israel

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“Hey, I know we just attacked you and slaughtered a bunch of your people, but if you let us leave us our infrastructure alone so that we can rearm to attack you again, we’ll give back some but not all of the people we took” - Hamas

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Anonymous #6 13w

Hamas only was able to do that effective an attack because the IDF had been redirected from near the Gaza border to protect settlers who were stealing homes in the West Bank, where they had no right to be in the first place, that and the funneling of money to Hamas to prop them up and weaken Fatah for years are part of why a lot of Israelis blamed Netanyahu for October 7th

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