Anonymous #1 5w

Israel as in the modern nation-state which did not exist until 1948, I’m not talking about the name Israel being used, I’d kinda assumed it was obvious that’s what I meant from the post

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Anonymous OP 5w

You’re okay with the name being used and our daily prayers focusing on it and longing for it, just not on the state actually existing?

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Anonymous #3 5w

Modern nation state of Israel is not what our daily prayers are talking about. I don’t want it to be about the modern nation-state

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Anonymous #2 5w

Yeah, and I’m fine if some of the people there are Zionist or whatever but I don’t want that stuff pushed into my religious practice

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Anonymous #3 5w

We are still longing for a return and that still has not happened, we are still a people in exile, we haven’t been redeemed. That’s why even in Jerusalem most Jews are still saying “next year in Jerusalem” because the Messiah has not arrived and the new Israel that’d come with the arrival has not happened

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Anonymous #1 5w

have you?

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Anonymous OP 5w

What’s the reason you have this aversion to the “modern nation state” but not to the Messianic state? Is this the classic “We should wait for Mashiach before we demolish the Dome of the Rock” or is it something else?

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Anonymous mountainjew 5w

if i’m an antizionist why would i want to be part of an institution that goes directly against my beliefs

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Anonymous OP 5w

So you are only OK with Israel as a theocratic monarchy under mosjiach ben david?

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Anonymous #6 5w

Only ok to take over Palestine if our leader is a really fantastic guy who we make king and only Jews have rights

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Anonymous #5 5w

I don’t agree with Chabad about gay people, but I’d still be willing to go to Shabbat there. You can disagree with an institution and choose not to Isolate yourself from other Jews.

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Anonymous mountainjew 5w

do you understand why i, a gay person, might also not be a huge fan of that

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Anonymous mountainjew 5w

also, zionism is a political ideology. most zionist jewish orgs i know of have a very direct connection to israel that they talk about often. however chabad feels anout gay people, it’s hardly at the forefront. so it’s not really comparable. also, who said i’m isolating myself from other jews? you know most of us have like hobbies and interests and activities, right? most of my close friends are jewish and i have met zero of them through jewish institutions

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Anonymous mountainjew 5w

The people running the institution being Zionist doesn’t affect my willingness to go, but if the Zionism is imbedded in the services or the resources and events they offer than that would be a problem for me, yeah. Not saying I’ll never go to an event like that, but I am very distrustful of the way I have seen many of these institutions twist our religious practice

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Anonymous mountainjew 5w

I also “do not isolate myself from other Jews,” I just don’t have a real Jewish community in my home town the way I have one in my college town

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Anonymous #3 5w

The modern nation state was taken by force, and we are bound in the three oaths to not return to the holy land by force, nor to return as a wall/en mass before the arrival of the Messiah. It is not about “taking over” and certainly not only Jews having rights, but about a divine return that begets an era of peace “They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation will not lift sword against nation and they will no longer study warfare.” — Isaiah 2:4

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Anonymous #6 5w

I am only okay with a Jewish anything, Israel or otherwise, involving a return to the holy land if it is not created by force and I would only accept it to be the Israel we dream of in our prayers if it is not only not created by force but by divine will and that it is paired with an ushering in of an era of peace for all

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Anonymous mountainjew 5w

You do you boo, but that would be like me (a black person) deciding to go to a church of my same faith filled with white supremacists simply because I’m allowed to go there and no one’s stopping me. I would feel majorly unsafe and for good reasons 😭

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Anonymous #7 5w

You would feel unsafe in a Jewish organisation that Zionist? That’s a wild comparison.

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Anonymous mountainjew 5w

Depends how outspoken they were, yeah. My best friend for my entire life is a non zionist Jew, and the more than harsh words he got from the zionists in his family and church was enough to make him leave it. Especially on top of the fact he is trans and they used that to fuel the fire. I know not every zionist is like that, I do. But him and I saw it first hand🤷🏽‍♀️

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Anonymous #7 5w

His church?

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Anonymous mountainjew 5w

To call it a church shows to me that you lack a very baseline level of knowledge and don’t know what you’re talking about, and you have no idea what Zionism or Jewish communities are like so I’m gonna end the conversation here

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Anonymous mountainjew 5w

Church, synagogue, temple, mosque, whatever you wanna call it irdc. They’re all places of worship. And yes, he left that community because of their treatment towards him. And idk my fucking bad ig? I’m an atheist who mainly spends my time studying the wackiness of the Bible so I almost always default to “church” when I’m talking about the 3 major Abrahamic religions. You know what I mean, but by all means, tap outta the conversation cause people like u never wanna see it thru ofc 🤭

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Anonymous mountainjew 5w

this is a weird thing i always see zionists doing. you get one detail wrong or have one uncommon experience and therefore you know nothing about judaism or zionism. it’s happened to me too and i’m jewish and was raised in zionist synagogues

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Anonymous mountainjew 5w

i feel unsafe around republican jews and i grew up around a lot of them. i wouldn’t wanna join a community or congregation that i know doesn’t hold the same morals and values as me. most anti zionist jews i know are also part of other minority groups and given that a lot of zionist ideologies are more conservative leaning, i wouldn’t feel comfortable or safe expressing myself and my personal ties to judaism in that environment.

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