Anonymous OP 18h

Israel accidentally kills civilians, and Palestinians accidentally kill combatants

6

Anonymous #1 18h

Yeah. They are making this incredibly complicated when it’s so simple. Killing civilians intentionally is wrong. Hard stop. And these people say these statements, but then talk about the plight of the Palestinian people. This is what a lack of community and/or God does to a person.

10

Anonymous #1 18h

Setting accidents an all aside. We should acknowledge that what I’m debating with them on is even more basic: killing civilians in any capacity is tragic. Even I, as an adamant supporter of Israel, feel heavy in my heart to learn that children with grow up without mothers or fathers in Gaza or that parents will bury their children. It is incredibly unfortunate and our book teaches us to have that אהבת חינם for all living things and beings.

12

Anonymous #1 18h

However, it is increasingly obvious that the overwhelming majority of anti-Zionists lack community and a moral compass. They are more enamored by the concept of moral superiority rather than actually being morally and ethically consistent and righteous.

9

Anonymous OP 17h

Absolutely

0

Anonymous OP 17h

Its more so what recognition of your place in the world does to Americans

-1

Anonymous #3 17h

Or they do this. Incapable of thought, reason, or rebuttals - so they start spamming memes or ragebaiting.

9

Anonymous #3 17h

It’s close to impossible to argue with someone who doesn’t have an internal dictation of logic. They will generalize one group and then pick and choose when it’s okay.

7

Anonymous OP 17h

I have you my reasons it’s more so that you don’t want to recognize your guilt and complicity in the system

0

Anonymous OP 17h

It’s close to impossible to give an obtuse bot the truth if they’re motivated to not recognize it

0

Anonymous #3 17h

Is this meme “the truth?”

5

Anonymous OP 17h

Yes

0

Anonymous #3 17h

Well, I guess we’re the same then since we’re both participants in this system. Maybe I don’t feel guilty because my source of information and arguments isn’t based in memes I find.

5

Anonymous #3 16h

My sincere hope for you - and I genuinely mean this - is that you find a hobby or community that can offer you an outlet for your unresolved anger. I think I’ve concluded that your arguments are based more in self-hatred than in politics. If they were politically based, you’d have consistency of logic. You can’t call out people for being complicit in a system you literally participate in. It deeply pains me that your heart aches and I hope you can find a way to heal this brokenness.

8

Anonymous OP 16h

It isn’t based on memes it’s based on books like this

0

Anonymous OP 16h

Save your crocodile tears

0

Anonymous #3 16h

It’s not insincere grief. I legitimately feel sorry for you and will pray for your mind and heart to heal.

4

Anonymous OP 16h

It’s fine I’m just not in a western delusional mindset like most people are here. It much more liberating when you see and accept the reality

0

Anonymous #3 16h

So you’re consciously complicit. Isn’t that worse? 😂

8

Anonymous OP 16h

I do what I can to push back even if efforts like trying to convince you are fruitless

0

Anonymous OP 16h

If you want to help me join DSA and knock doors and phone bank like I do

0

Anonymous #3 16h

So basically you’re just virtue signaling. If I were in your position with your sentiments and I felt that strongly, I’d live off the grid and/or stop paying taxes. I’d maybe even move to a new country. You clearly don’t feel guilty enough to do something that would actually reflect your politics, so basically you’re just roleplaying as an activist.

5

Anonymous OP 16h

Yes I’m virtue signaling. Thanks for recognizing what I’m saying is virtuous. Maybe you should change your mindset and take action, in the direction of virtues rather than doing whatever obtuse nonsense you’re arguing in favor of

0

Anonymous #3 16h

Well, I would say I’m practicing what I preach just fine. I support peace, I do not advocate for violence. I’m uniformly across violence against civilians across the board. I donate frequently to charities to alleviate any pain that I can. I pray frequently for peace and I interact with people I disagree with frequently and do my best to treat them with respect as long as it is mutually given. I’m actually all fine over here because I’m operating in practice. You’re operating in name.

4

Anonymous OP 16h

No I’m operating to try building a competent communist movement to take power in the US and move the world in the direction of peace and international cooperation so that we don’t leave future generations an inhabitable hellhole like the path we’re currently on

1

Anonymous #3 16h

Also I wouldn’t say you’re virtuous because you did say that killing civilians isn’t always equally bad regardless of circumstance. I would say you’re attempting to be ‘perceived’ as virtuous when in reality you have no principles to stand on other than hate. That’s why I said your head and heart are consumed. This is about greed.

8

Anonymous #3 16h

*uninhabitable

1

Anonymous #3 16h

So go start a commune in the Midwest and live off the grid. What’s your excuse for that one?

6

Anonymous OP 16h

Your magic prayers and donations to band aid solution charities is certainly in line with your fence sitting attitude.

1

Anonymous OP 16h

That doesn’t actually do anything apart from maybe alleviating some personal sense of guilt and complicity in suffering

1

Anonymous OP 16h

Yes like I said lots of “civilians” are participating in crimes.

0

Anonymous OP 15h

You already recognized what I was advocating for is virtuous so why are you backtracking?

0

Anonymous #3 15h

I’m saying you’re virtue signaling. You’re attempting to look virtuous, I didn’t say you were virtuous. You’re making an attempt and it’s failing. I don’t agree with the things you’re saying at all. You think there’s acceptable times for killing civilians.

7

Anonymous OP 15h

Depends on who you consider a civilian

0

Anonymous #3 15h

A non-combatant. Civilian has a definition.

8

Anonymous OP 15h

Ok nazi civilians faced the death penalty was that wrong?

0

Anonymous #3 15h

Like you’re saying civilians in Nazi Germany received the death penalty?

8

Anonymous OP 15h

Yes

0

Anonymous #3 15h

Yes obviously that was wrong? Are you saying they deserved to get the death penalty for things like helping Jews hide from the Reich?

9

Anonymous OP 15h

No, for things like governance roles, media, participation in the systemic crimes of nazi germany

1

Anonymous OP 15h

Why are you so obtuse

1

Anonymous #3 14h

I’m not obtuse, I literally clarified and you failed to communicate clearly. That’s not my fault - I even double checked.

7

Anonymous #3 14h

In any regard, the “civilians” you are referencing often held Schutzstaffel honorary ranks so they were technically military as well. Nazi Germany, as is common with Fascist adjacent ideologies, blurred the lines between military high ranks and ministerial high ranks. The civilians present in tribunals were direct organizers of concentration camps and gave direct military orders to open fronts. They also literally lost civilian immunity due to them being direct and commanding organizers.

9

Anonymous OP 14h

When asked whether nazi civilians facing the death penalty was wrong you honestly thought I was talking about people who opposed the nazis? You’re Unbelievably disingenuous. Regardless answer the question I put it back here again.

0

Anonymous #3 14h

I answered it already. Please read.

2

Anonymous #3 14h

Here, regardless I put the answer here again.

6

Anonymous #3 14h

I don’t know how I’m supposed to debate with someone who can’t figure out how to communicate or read.

6

Anonymous OP 14h

Ok so you understand the morality around killing civilians is not a binary.

1

Anonymous #3 14h

Did you miss the part where they held military ranks in the Schutzstaffel?

5

Anonymous #3 14h

What’s up with your reading comprehension man. We weren’t having issues with this earlier and suddenly it’s every message. 🤦

7

Anonymous OP 14h

I read it just fine

1

Anonymous #3 13h

Also to be clear, these “civilians” as you want to call them. Even though they were voided as a protected class under Geneva due to their direct organization and involvement in creating the Holocaust were specific individuals, not from a group at large - they didn’t do a trial for 100,000 random German civilians. They were specific ministers, doctors, slave owners, and so on that often held honorary military status.

3

Anonymous #3 13h

Okay, so you understand that they were not considered protected class civilians and held SS military ranks in many cases.

8

Anonymous OP 13h

This was a conversation about the morality of it not the policy perscription. and honestly we didn’t execute enough of them

1

Anonymous OP 13h

Ok lots of people who would be considered civilians into today’s order wouldn’t be considered a protected class either if there was an actual power that held America and Israel to account

1

Anonymous #3 13h

The morality of killing people with military ranks.

4

Anonymous #3 13h

So you think all 340 million Americans would be put on trial? 😂

6

Anonymous OP 13h

Honorary military ranks

1

Anonymous #3 13h

Still military nevertheless. Not true civilians. I don’t have an honorary military rank.

3

Anonymous #3 13h

Also let’s just make a long story short and get the big question out of the way (I will only accept a direct yes or no answer and will not respond until you give one): Do you think what Hamas did on October 7th to Israeli civilians was justified?

5

Anonymous OP 13h

If the world were to flip around tomorrow and become just a lot of Americans would be facing some kind of consequence. At least America would be forced to pay the rest of the world reparations

1

Anonymous OP 13h

That’s like saying they were military for getting a medal.

1

Anonymous OP 13h

Most of it yeah

0

Anonymous OP 13h

Same way the Warsaw ghetto uprising and may turner rebellion was justified

0

Anonymous #3 13h

*nat turner

0

Anonymous OP 13h

Beyond morality it’s also their legal right even under the international law order America designed

0

Anonymous #3 13h

You are a disgusting human being. The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising didn’t target civilians. I think we’re done here. Justifying October 7th is sick and twisted. I can’t, in good conscience or good faith, continue a conversation with you. I hope nothing horrible happens to you or your family like what happened that day, but one thing is for sure, you should pray to God for mercy because your compatriots with the same mindset will probably not provide it. I don’t know how you sleep at night.

3

Anonymous #3 13h

You are sick in the head. I’m going to pray for you. Do not worry.

3

Anonymous OP 13h

Since when did praying do anything?

0

Anonymous OP 13h

I don’t believe in god but thanks

0

Anonymous OP 13h

Hamas targeted military personnel that’s where they primarily struck, the goal was to get bargaining chips in the hopes that Israel actually cared enough about their own people rather than ethnically cleansing Gaza

0