Anonymous #1 2d

A lot of people don’t know that antizionism is intrinsically antisemitic

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Anonymous #1 2d

To put it in perspective: I'm a hardcore atheist and think all Abrahamic religions are a cancer on humanity. I just don't go around saying that, because it's rude and unproductive. I will, however, freely mock Israel. I've payed them enough in taxes to earn that right. Would anti-Israel Jewish people be offended by me saying this particular thing? I find it appealing as an insult because it calls attention to the absurdity of religious states.

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Anonymous OP 2d

Israel’s aid is a discount credit on buying arms from the us. It’s factored into the defense budget and your taxes are virtually unaffected by it…

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Anonymous #2 2d

This is a fair answer, thank you. I stand by all I have said about hating religious states and religious dogma as a whole, but if Jewish people find the idea of a better form of Israel existing one day comforting I suppose me mocking that won't help my case. I will never support Israel in practice, or any religious state, but the belief itself is harmless.

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Anonymous #1 2d

Says evil characters like American politicians

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Anonymous #4 2d

I don't want a single penny of mine or my nation's wealth going to a religious state. Our defense budget is insane enough without Israel.

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Anonymous OP 2d

Define a cancer. How on earth has Judaism been a cancer on humanity?

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Anonymous #1 2d

curious do you also hate landback and Native American sovereignty? Is that somehow racist?

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Anonymous OP 2d

Israel is not a religious state, unfortunately. A religious Israel will not exist until the coming of the Messiah and end of war, strife, sickness, and death.

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Anonymous OP 2d

Israel is a secular state. And again the aid to Israel is a discount credit. They pay money into the us.

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Anonymous #2 2d

Cultural conservatism and religious dogma are inherently detrimental to our species. Judaism in particular falls into the trap of all Abrahamic religions: wanting to kill each other forever over a random spot in the middle of nowhere that serves zero value to anyone. So many wasted lives in the name of texts written by shamanistic savages. I don't go around saying this every day, I don't hate people who practice. People are usually good. But you asked, so I feel the need to be bluntly honest.

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Anonymous OP 2d

Judaism is founded on respect and stewardship of the land of Israel, and that’s not particularly strange for national religions. Do you have issues with Native American religion?

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Anonymous OP 2d

Also, this is a deep misunderstanding of what Judaism is, viewed from a chiefly Christian American perspective

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Anonymous #5 2d

I think it's a waste of time. The damage to their cultures isn't getting undone, no matter what happens. It's just to make Americans feel less guilty for their founder's actions. I admit, I can't muster much hatred. These religions are all but stamped out, not governing our society's future the way Abrahamic ideology does.

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Anonymous OP 2d

So by abrahamic religion, you are blaming Jews because a bunch of Roman’s took our culture and decided to impose it worldwide? Got it

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Anonymous #2 2d

Even if I agreed that it isn't right now, I think founding a state because you expect it to become a religious state is just extra steps. But let's agree to disagree. I won't say the 3000 years thing anymore, for the reasons you laid out. I respect you for answering my question as I intended it.

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Anonymous OP 2d

The founders of the state of Israel were secular, and Israel was not founded with the eventual goal of becoming a religious state

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Anonymous #2 2d

I don't blame Jewish people for the rise of global Christianity. I blame Christians.

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Anonymous OP 2d

But you manage to lump Judaism in with your hatred of Christianity

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Anonymous #6 2d

Thank you! This is very informative and exactly what I was looking for.

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Anonymous #7 2d

Don’t worry, I’m sure the assertion that Judaism is a cancer to humanity is just anti-Zionism and not antisemitism

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Anonymous #3 2d

you’re so right. my bad

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Anonymous OP 2d

glad i could help!

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Anonymous #2 2d

For the reasons I have already mentioned, yes.

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Anonymous OP 2d

The reasons you have given show you know nothing about Judaism

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Anonymous #2 2d

it’s okay. we’re always to blame for being colonized, enslaved, and massacred. this is no different, right? of course our religion and culture being appropriated is our fault.

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Anonymous #4 2d

How so?

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Anonymous OP 2d

Hating a people’s culture because of a completely different people is evident bias against that people. That’s like hating Buddhists for the Nazi swastika

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Anonymous #2 2d

I hate the consequences more than the culture. I wouldn't say I necessarily hate Jews or Christians or Muslims, more the consequences of these religions and their various beliefs and feuds on the world at large. I do recognize that Judaism has perpetrated far fewer horrors than Christianity or Islam, and harbor deep cultural trauma from centuries of oppression. I don't relish that. If anything, it enforces my belief that religion ultimately brings more harm than good at such a scale.

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Anonymous #2 2d

Our definitions of religious state differ.

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Anonymous OP 2d

Judaism has been in no way a cancer upon the world, it’s a set of beliefs held by a single people and not enforced upon others. Nothing about Judaism fits into your perspective of religion. Don’t say “Abrahamic religions” when you mean “Christianity and Islam”.

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Anonymous OP 2d

you do understand that even with the horrors that our ancestors have experienced, we are still proud of our deep and rich history, the fact that we have held onto our practices for thousands of years whilst living in diaspora? we have endured persecution for generations upon generations and our ancestors still held onto who they were with such pride and strength. many of us wouldn’t trade our identity for anything in the world, even with all that our ancestors have gone through and what we are

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Anonymous #7 2d

enduring now.

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Anonymous #6 2d

also just want to explain a little more about the hebrew terms i used there: they’re different ways we define parts of collective identity. in ancient times, our ancestors considered themselves and their homeland to be like one being, Yisrael. when we were expelled from Yisrael and went into Diaspora (the Hebrew word, galut, has a much more tragic connotation than the English), Yisrael was split into Am Yisrael (the peoplehood/nation/ethnic group) and Eretz Yisrael (the land)

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Anonymous #6 2d

for 2,000 years in galut religious Jews dreamed of a reunification between Eretz Yisrael and Am Yisrael, but believed that the wound was so deep it couldn’t be healed until the coming of the Messiah. then (to very much oversimplify an extremely complicated piece of history), the Zionist movement established Medinat Israel, a modern secular nation-state with a Jewish identity, on part of Eretz Yisrael.

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Anonymous #6 2d

the 20th century happened (massive oversimplification), and by the end 50% of Am Yisrael was living in Medinat Israel. BUT the people of Medinat Israel are not all part of Am Yisrael, so there’s kind of an extended family thing going on between non-Jewish Israelis, Jewish Israelis, and Diaspora Jews. so now Medinat, Am, and Eretz Yisrael are like a very confusing 3-way Venn diagram. and that’s without even getting to Israelis and Palestinians

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Anonymous #7 2d

my grandmother, although not a holocaust survivor, had to flee her respective country or be killed for who she was. she fled and held onto her judaism until the very end. she was a badass woman, and may her memory forever be a blessing. i wouldn’t dare disgrace all she sacrificed so that her children, grandchildren, and great grand children could carry her torch.

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Anonymous #2 2d

I see the current bloodshed caused by the creation of modern Israel as a direct result of Jewish religious beliefs. Nothing you can say will make me see that as anything but a waste and a net negative for our species. Even if I believed it was all purely self defense, it's killing caused by following the orders of bedtime stories. More people dead for magic dirt.

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Anonymous OP 2d

what do you think islamists have been doing to jews for centuries? october 7th was a clear representation of that. i’m sorry that jews fought back. clearly we’re not allowed to do anything to defend ourselves and should just be okay with being lambs for slaughter, huh?

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Anonymous OP 2d

The current bloodshed was caused by an Islamic state proxy army paraglided into a festival and kibbutzes and slaughtered civilians

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Anonymous #7 2d

My heart breaks for all the people who were killed in the October 7th attacks. They shouldn't have listened to the magic book when it told them to move to a wartorn region full of zealous savages who hate them specifically.

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Anonymous #4 2d

let’s not forget the infants, including the unborn ones who were cut out of the womb and left with the placenta attached to ensure no chance of survival.

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Anonymous OP 2d

you’re a fucking piece of shit, you know that? you don’t care about those lives. don’t you even pretend to. some of us have family members who were brutally murdered in ways that even horror movies cannot portray.

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Anonymous OP 2d

“My heart breaks for all the women who are SAed this year, but they shouldn’t have been dressing like that”

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Anonymous OP 2d

Jews mostly didn’t move to Israel for religious reasons, or at least not religious reasons alone. most arrived as refugees. many were rejected from other countries because they were Jewish

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Anonymous #2 2d

deadass the same fucking energy or “she should have left her abuser before he killed her”.

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Anonymous #2 2d

Putting on a skirt and moving to a warzone aren't comparable. 6 brings up a good point about refugees, I will admit. But no rational person should move to that region unless they have literally no other choice. My point is more that if Israel hadn't been hastily formed in this volatile area, a lot of innocent people would still be alive. Its creation, in this way in this time, was a fundamentally unwise decision motivated by religion.

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Anonymous OP 2d

Israel wasn’t formed for religious reasons though. Zionism was a secular movement driven by fear about antisemitism. its true that if Israel had never been formed, a lot of innocent people would still be alive. but also a lot of innocent people who are alive now would be dead or never born because their ancestors had nowhere to run to

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Anonymous #6 2d

Perhaps, but its location certainly was chosen for religious regions. And that's what has put its citizens at risk. If Israel were formed in Canada or something, I can't say for certain they would face NO aggression. But not at this scale and with this level of ferocity.

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Anonymous OP 2d

Jews have lived in the land unbroken for thousands of years. They where there when it was colonized by the ottomans, they where there when it was controlled by the byzantines. You do make a point With Canada. The Israelis didn’t completely wipe tribes off the face of the map like Canadians and force other natives into education camps in a form of ethnic erasure.

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Anonymous #4 2d

I don't care if they lived there since the invention of fire. It means nothing to me. The British Empire helped form Israel. I imagine they would treat Jewish people slightly differently from Indigenous people, considering Canada was one of their colonies.

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Anonymous OP 2d

Canada was a colony of France… bro you aren’t beating the stupid as shit allegations.

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Anonymous #4 2d

Okay, you got me there. But my point stands. Just about anywhere would have been safer.

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Anonymous OP 2d

You realize that 1/3 of the Jewish population was wiped out right before the creation. Of Israel. What do you mean safer…

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Anonymous OP 2d

My family felt safe in Oujda Morocco before violent programs came and murdered people in the streets and set fire to homes and businesses

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Anonymous #4 2d

By safer, I mean not on the most highly contested religious site in the world.

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Anonymous OP 1d

It honestly doesn’t matter how many people lay claim to our land, it doesn’t make it not our land because other religious groups think they have a right to it, just as manifest destiny doesn’t make California European land.

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Anonymous OP 1d

The past 2000 years have demonstrated that only place the Jews can be safe is a place where the Jews are not subject to the whims of the nations. Better to make a last stand at Masada then be driven by the truckload to a concentration camp.

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Anonymous #3 1d

Facts saying that the only Jewish state is doing a genocide is antisemitic blood libel

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Anonymous #7 1d

Exactly people don’t understand that Israel only acts in self defense. There is no genocide or war crimes. Just the only Jewish country being forced to defend itself. It’s actually antisemitic blood libel to accuse Israel of such crimes as many unfortunately have

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Anonymous #7 1d

Plus all the beheaded babes

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Anonymous #2 1d

It's not your land. It's not anybody's land. No land "belongs" to anyone in any meaningful way. The concept is a collective human psychosis and vestigial evolutionary trait. Safety of the Jewish people is not the priority of Israel. The fulfillment of delusional prophecy is. You openly admit to being willing to throw your life away to die on this pile of dirt over seeking safety elsewhere. Another century of purposeless war and lives of fear is all that awaits its people.

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Anonymous OP 1d

israel is the ancestral homeland of jewish people and it’s been that way since the creation of judaism. i’m sorry that you’re lacking a profound connection to your jewish ancestry.

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Anonymous #1 1d

I couldn't care less, sorry. It's sad you value culture over human life. This is proving all my convictions about the insanity of religion were correct.

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Anonymous OP 1d

then leave the jewish group if you don’t like religion??? lmfao

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Anonymous #1 23h

Perhaps I should. This thread isn't helping me or anyone else. I shouldn't have gone into my own anti-religious beliefs and just accepted the answer I was looking for. I'm too attracted to argument for my own good sometimes. I did learn some interesting things, so hopefully it wasn't a total loss.

3