Anonymous #2 22h

*its

6

Anonymous #2 22h

the queer community started with a strong collectivist nature and its what made them strong, fierce, and militant. It’s what got us what little rights and recognition we have today. Pride has become an annual holiday for self-indulging and partying instead of the collective act of resistance it started as.

4

Anonymous OP 22h

I agree it turning into that is bad, but in strongly collectivist cultures you’re forced to spend time with bad people because they’re “part of the community”. And i’m not saying bigots, i’m saying people who are shitty. Take close knit bdsm communities of today: rapists often get away with it simply because they’ve been in the community for a long period of time. There’s downsides.

6

Anonymous #2 22h

I’m confused with what this has to do with the original post? Obviously people who do abhorrent shit beyond redemption or accountability should be ousted.

6

Anonymous OP 22h

Because strongly collectivist cultures typically don’t exocommunicate people like that. It’s hard to get rid of someone when your only focus is keeping everything and everyone together no matter what. Seriously, talk to someone from a strongly collectivist culture. I agree we should lean collectivist but 100% collectivist is bad. It’s also hard for “outsiders” to assimilate. In our community this would mean people who are newly out.

1

Anonymous #2 22h

You are taking this way too literally dawg

5

Anonymous OP 22h

Oh ok my bad

2

Anonymous #4 20h

this is just not true dawg what collectivist societies are you talking about? 😭

5

Anonymous #4 20h

I said the queer community needs our sense of collectivism back. It is a shared struggle that unites us. a lot of queer folks and especially younger queer folks who’ve grown up with privileges previous generations have not, have an issue with ego imo.

6

Anonymous OP 20h

the white moderate queers have ruined the movement. they've brought us full circle back to assimilationism and respectability politics—throwing other queers under the bus and shitting on them for being to out there or extreme.

6

Anonymous ellie 20h

heavy on that! I'm so tired of the performative activism too. endless discourse and soapboxing that gets us no where.

3

Anonymous OP 20h

Hi, I think I misunderstood this point in your original post, I’m sorry. Because it was phrased as “individualism = bad, collectivism = good,” I didn’t realize you meant collectivism as in unity and collective action within the queer community

1

Anonymous ellie 20h

And do you mean me? Because I’m neither white nor moderate, I’m a democratic socialist, and I’m not advocating assimilation - literally the opposite. As queer people we will always be the minority in society, and a society that oppresses minorities and denies them individual rights will always come after us as well. I was pointing out that “individualism” in society (the focus on individual rights and independent autonomy) isn’t a completely evil thing (though ofc it can be taken too far).

-2

Anonymous #4 19h

did i respond to you when making that statement or did i respond to a relevant comment made by op? also its interesting that you're a dem soc and yet you're essentially rehashing anti-collectivist propaganda that has been used time and time again to smear socialist movements. collectivism isn't targeting your individual rights and liberties. it does not work towards a detriment of queer individuals. collectivism aims for the benefit of the collective—emphasizing the importance of (1/2)

1

Anonymous ellie 19h

minority voices within that collective. if you study collectivism then there's a strong emphasis on community—working together to bring about a good outcome for all of us.

1

Anonymous #5 12h

it is a bad thing. if we get lost in individualism and fighting individual oppressors we lose the larger picture—that it's all rooted in class oppression. individualists are self serving. collectivists work for the good of the collective.

8

Anonymous #5 12h

in individualist countries you start seeing something called the fundamental attribution error occurring. this is where people blame the individual for certain events over their circumstances. "oh late to work? that must be an issue with you" rather than traffic, or transportation issues, or other factors.

1

Anonymous #5 12h

Individualism is against human nature, and contradicts how society works at all. Individualism says you should not need other people, and that you should abondon your support network. Individualism says that the poor and drug addicted are at fault for being that way.

6

Anonymous #4 12h

Democratism Socialism is moderate 😭

4

Anonymous #5 12h

not to mention the quality of eldercare and disability resources slump in individualist countries comparatively to collectivist ones. we place less value on our elders and the disabled. as they are not productive in capitalisms eyes, they are not afforded an equitable quality of life. everyone is so focused on themselves that they don't stop to aid others.

4

Anonymous #5 12h

individualism has led to whole sections of the US being abandoned. Appalachia, for instance, was abandoned by corporations and politics alike. in the absence they became one of the most collectivist regions in the US.

6

Anonymous #5 12h

we view homelessness and economic oppression as a failure of the individual now due to individualism. i've literally written countless papers on this shit. so tldr yeah individualism is pretty bad.

6