Anonymous #3 7w

I thought trans girls who pass were called fish

5

Anonymous #4 7w

I’m not trans but to my knowledge fish isn’t typically used as a noun but an adjective, as in “fishy”, to describe someone’s ability to pass for a cis woman

15

Anonymous #6 7w

ur lowkey right tho

9

Anonymous #8 7w

i believe girls that are “easily clockable” and don’t pass and/or don’t necessarily adhere to traditional feminine beauty standards

10

Anonymous #6 7w

i mean as someone who grew up in a conservative family and heard a lot of shitty things from them… there is more hate towards trans women than trans men from what i’ve seen, transphobes are more concerned about trans women going into the women’s bathrooms and give them crap if they don’t pass well or aren’t conventionally attractive

31

Anonymous #6 7w

not to say at all that trans men aren’t discriminated against because they definitely go through their own shit, but from what i’ve seen personally trans women have tended to be the primary target of discourse

22

Anonymous #11 7w

maybe hear out the experiences of trans men and non-binary people, particularly from non-western countries, before you come to that conclusion. just people because non-transfemmes are talked about less, doesn’t mean we get any less harassment or abuse.

-5

Anonymous #9 7w

ohhhh i thought it was a weird slur transphobes came up with like "big hands" or smt

4

Anonymous #9 7w

to clarify i'm a tgirl that doesn't pass and i was very confused

5

Anonymous #6 7w

i never said that they don’t? all i’m saying is that from personal experiences trans women have been the primary target of discrimination that i have seen? as someone who’s best friend is a trans man and grew up with them in a small republican town

19

Anonymous #11 7w

yes, but your personal experiences still do not dictate that trans men and enbies as a whole face LESS than trans women.

-7

Anonymous #6 7w

transphobes mudsling at trans fems much more in media and law (bathrooms, sports, “chop your dick off”, pedophile and sex predator stuff). so protect the dolls makes sense since they get a lot of antagonizing attention. that doesn’t mean trans mascs are less affected by transphobia; it means it manifests in different ways, primarily by ignoring their identity entirely and calling them “confused girls” etc. trans mascs need more (positive) attention than protection while dolls need protection

15

Anonymous #14 7w

Hey so trans men have the highest rates of SA in the lgbt community dawg

14

Anonymous #6 7w

and again, i’m not saying that they don’t experience a lot of hate themselves, im just saying from what i’ve seen the most vocal hate i’ve heard (from both people in my life and the media) has been particularly about trans women, them in sports, the bathroom they use, their appearance

12

Anonymous corvidz 7w

protect doesn’t mean physically protect lmao, I was clearly talking about public attention and media, not SA.

3

if we really wanna stick to media and attention and not the reality of our situation then maybe it would help to remember “irreversible damage” and “rapid-onset gender dysphoria”. also trans men are talked about less with stuff like sports because t is a controlled substance, unlike estrogen.

-2

Anonymous #3 7w

I thought it was just generally women not just trans women

5

Anonymous #6 7w

also this convo is dumb as hell why are we trying to argue online about who is affected by transphobia more 💔 I’m not gonna contribute to another false binary

11

if i were to list out every example of trans men facing unique forms of oppression just to prove you that we are just as oppressed as women it would take a shit ton of energy out of me. unnecessary when this is information can be easily learned just be listening to those of us who have already talked about this stuff before. saying that we get ignored entirely is just blatantly untrue and you are actively engaging in our erasure by saying this stuff.

-1

Anonymous #14 7w

you’re the one talking about transfems getting targeted more/getting it worse than transmascs

-1

Anonymous #6 7w

I feel like there’s a specific hatred/fear/stigma towards specifically trans women hence the trans women in women’s bathrooms argument

14

Anonymous #6 7w

*trans women. i meant to add that in there

1

Anonymous #6 7w

I’m contributing to trans masc erasure by saying they get erased?? 😭 and I literally said they’re just as harmed by transphobia but media literacy is dead apparently

7

Anonymous #6 7w

genuinely if you just want to argue then go do it elsewhere. happily blocked

2

Anonymous #6 7w

my main point is that i don’t see why we shouldn’t advocate for them both separately or together either as trans masc and trans fem people are discriminated against in different ways, so saying something like the saying “protect the dolls” is performative doesn’t seem right to me, someone saying that isn’t saying they don’t also care about trans masc people

4

Anonymous #14 7w

do you think those rates of SA are just a coincidence to being trans or something…there’s not a great reason to be trying to play oppression Olympics when we’re all getting fucked over by rising transphobia rn

3

How many trans men are you close with in your life

1

Anonymous #14 7w

Bro you’re the one who’s doing that 😭

1

Anonymous #17 7w

That is true, but there’s also no good reason to act like it’s worse or better than trans men’s experience with transphobia. We do NOT need to be dividing the community even more at this point

3

#1 is specifically talking about acceptance. If a straight man only treats the women he finds attractive as real people, then there is definitely an issue. In your case, as long as you aren’t saying the trans women you aren’t attracted to are still trans women, you’re fine.

53

Anonymous #4 7w

there are multiple terms but fishy refers to the smell of women’s vaginas so i personally would prefer only women use it, i hate the misogyny in gay mens spaces lol

3

Anonymous #22 7w

As someone with a vagina I would personally prefer that nobody uses it. The reference is completely degrading no matter how anyone spins it. (Exceptions for individual people aware of the connotations & reclaiming it. This is me talking about unpromted referring to someone as fishy w/out prior discussion)

9

You said trans men don’t need protection, just positive attention, which is kind of an odd statement since like, all trans people need both protection and positive attention? idk why y'all are all trying to claim that one group needs "more" of something than the other or one group has to have it worse or whatever. We all have it bad and individually have varying degrees of bad depending on other life circumstances. Christ

4

Anonymous #26 6w

I'd also like to point out that if all transmasc people are missing is "positive attention" then y'all should probably get on that, since rn the majority of the time I hear people mention trans men or transmasc people (ie this thread) is only to say how much better/easier they have it. I do not see much positive attention even attempted by non-transmasc people. Like if y'all want to uplift trans folks you do gotta lift all of 'em up - no buts and no "but they aren’t as oppressed/deserving!"

3

Anonymous #26 6w

We all have problems we face as trans people, and some of those problems overlap and some don’t. And all of those problems are deserving of our community's attention and care, and our attention and care is not finite. Unfortunately that can be difficult to learn, since our society is steeped in the idea that only those deserving should receive. Then it becomes radical to extend the "deserving" group to everyone

2

I never said that means transmascs have it worse. I think it’s about equal tbh.

1

Anonymous #2 6w

you need to get out more

4

Anonymous #2 6w

A famous (cis, I think?) person on the internet popularized the slogan as a way to show support for trans people (women). It went viral, partly due to the merch (mainly t-shirts)

1

Anonymous #11 6w

Trans men are absolutely the target of discourse. Look at some statistics about sexual violence against trans men as well as their su!c!de rates. ‘Protect the dolls’ is weird, because it excludes like over 70% of the trans population.

4

Anonymous #14 6w

All of those laws also affect trans men. The bathroom laws are endangering trans men, and TERFs attack trans men constantly in the media as well as in public.

4

Anonymous #29 6w

i’ve never said they aren’t, just that trans women seem to be the primary target of discourse in media such as with them in bathrooms/sports, and as other commenters have said i think the only thing weird about “protect the dolls” is that it does exclude trans women that don’t pass as well, the fact that there’s a phrase for protecting trans women in general isn’t weird imo, i think people can vocalize protection of marginalized groups however they feel is most beneficial

0

Anonymous #11 6w

If you think oppression is accurately measured by how much you personally see related online discourse & news, you'll see your own identities more bc you know how to see those. Trans men have completely different dogwhistles and violence against them is p much not covered. Have you heard of Sam Nordquist? Did you know that the majority of what JKR writes about trans people is actually about trans men? Sensationalized ≠ more oppression. We all deserve to be seen and heard.

1

Anonymous #26 6w

i’m not trans. so no it is not my own identity that i’m seeing and i’m not saying one is more oppressed than the other just that they’re discriminated against in different ways so i don’t see why they shouldn’t also be able to advocate separately as well if that’s what they want. i am well aware of the problems trans men face but this is a post about trans women and the comment i responded to called it performative to use a saying focusing on trans women and that’s what im arguing against.

1

Anonymous #11 6w

The phrase invokes protection of only a subset of trans people. If someone assumes that the phrase means the person using it wants to protect all trans people, then they're misgendering trans people in "support" by saying all trans people are covered by supporting "dolls." And if you only want to be vocal about protecting one group of trans people as an ally, you are very clearly not being an ally to a large group of trans people?

1

Anonymous #26 6w

It’s not a bad phrase on it’s own. And some trans people are sometimes not seen as facing violence/discrimination or needing support. A subset of people will divide trans people into "most oppressed" and "not oppressed" and intentionally only support one group. From my own experience, I've only really seen popularized support of trans women or all trans ppl. Have you ever seen a trend like protect the dolls that supports specifically transmascs? That’s what some people here are reacting to.

1

Anonymous #26 6w

why do people specify their support of gay people or trans people? those are only groups of LGBTQ+? why are they only protecting one group as an ally, are they then not being an ally to the entirety of LGBTQ+ people? it feels the same to me as being upset over the phrase “save the turtles” because it’s not also including other marine life in the phrase

1

Anonymous #26 6w

i think a trend that protects specifically trans mascs would be great too!

1

Anonymous #11 6w

Genuinely yes there are people who only support one subset of the LGBTQ+ community and reject any notion that they should support everyone. And again my point is not that this particular phrase is bad, it's that there ARE a large number of people who constantly justify only talking about and supporting some trans people. There is a reason that there aren’t transmasc equivalents to phrases like this, and it's because people often see trans men & nb ppl as less deserving of support and attention.

0

Anonymous #11 6w

There is no meaningful reason to separate trans issues into transfem and transmasc issues other than to deny support to one group or the other. The only reason to have a gay-specific group is to specifically support gays & not bisexual ppl or lesbians. Not to mention where to enby ppl even go? Intersex people? As much as trans people have different experiences, many of our needs overlap with each other & separating them only weakens us.

-1

Anonymous #11 6w

You can focus on specific issues that face one group and still also support other groups

1

Anonymous corvidz 6w

that would be my entire point, yes

1

Anonymous corvidz 6w

Yes you can. I am simply pointing out that people do not, and that implying there is an inherent separation between trans men and women & nonbinary people & the rights we all need, allows people to only focus on a subsection of the group. Which is stupid when 90% of our issues are shared?

1

Anonymous #26 6w

The reason I needed to point out to someone earlier that all trans people need and deserve protection is because people have separated our issues into only being applicable to one group or another. My entire point is that when you do that separation you miss a bunch of already underprivileged trans people and end up denying resources that are supposed to be for *all* trans people.

1

Anonymous #11 6w

Well yeah because I’m generally agreeing with you, that’s why this was a reply to 26

1

Anonymous corvidz 6w

Wait shit

1

Anonymous corvidz 6w

my bad haha that was MEANT TO be a reply to 26

1

Anonymous corvidz 6w

lmao all good 😊

2