Anonymous #2 13w

That's still bullshit to me, it's a matter of being able to afford a therapist to pay someone to lie to insurance companies. It's stupid. Either cosmetic surgery is covered by insurance or it's not, there doesn't need to be this extra layer

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Anonymous #3 13w

I don't even know why youre talking about that lol that has nothing to do with this post

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Anonymous OP 13w

oh you’re only talking about mtf? sorry i was confused by the wording

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Anonymous #3 13w

I'm not only talking about mtf necessarily but I am saying the wording in this post is clearly not about a breast reduction because cis women already can get breast reductions covered on insurance and it says the only options for me are either A cups or $10k. Clearly I'm not getting a reduction from an A cup lol.

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Anonymous OP 13w

you need some level of a medical professional legitimizing the risk vs reward of something as serious as surgery, and it’s nearly impossible to quantify the reward of a surgery someone just wants to look a certain way and not bc they have any kind of dysphoria.

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Anonymous OP 13w

right but you didn’t say what you were or what your goal was; you could’ve been getting a reduction TO an a cup rather than aa or less as a goal.

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Anonymous #3 13w

I mean quality of life improvements from increase self confidence and satisfaction with what you see in the mirror every day exists whether you have dysphoria or not

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Anonymous OP 13w

but that’s not a treatment for a medical disorder, so it wouldn’t be covered by medical insurance

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Anonymous #3 13w

I didn't even know less than A existed but even so, context clues. The post says gender affirming surgery should be free for all or no one. If I was going from an A to a less than A for gender affirming reasons and you're assuming I'm FtM, that would be covered by insurance bc that would be something a trans man would do. So me saying my options are A cup or $10k implies that gender affirming surgery for me would be an augmentation and I'm not a trans woman bc then it'd be covered lol

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Anonymous OP 13w

breast reduction would not be covered by most insurance for gender affirming reasons, no. it didn’t say FROM an a anywhere; that’s why i said TO an a cup rather than FROM.

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Anonymous #3 13w

Can you read what I said again because I never claimed the post said from

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Anonymous OP 13w

the reasoning for a surgery matters to your insurance company. i can’t just say “i will elect to have my appendix out now.” people who get breast reduction approved by insurance have physiological diagnoses related to the weight of their current breasts.

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Anonymous OP 13w

“if i was going from an a” is exactly what you said.

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Anonymous #3 13w

Cis women who get breast reduction approved have to have physiological diagnoses, but it's not hard lol you claim back pain, they look at you and say yeah if it's not a problem now it could be later and it's preventative if nothing else. Trans men who get it approved don't need a physiological reason, the mental reason is there

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Anonymous #3 13w

I didn't claim the post said that! I literally said in the literal next sentence "so me saying my options are A cup or $10k". I never said the post said I was going from A, the preceding sentence was there to explain why context clues should've gotten you to the right conclusion. You even said yourself "I'm presuming that's not what you're talking about" because context clues tell you that's not what I'm talking about lol this is ridiculous

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Anonymous OP 13w

my sister is literally a cis woman with back pain and J cups. she was denied a breast reduction, because her back pain could not be proven to be related to the size of her breasts. there are multiple types of imaging involved. you cannot just say you have back pain; there has to be something physiological wrong AND it has to be proven to be related. a surgery that invasive would NOT be done preventatively.

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Anonymous OP 13w

and if those people have gotten crooked doctors to sign off that their fake back pain is related to the size of their breasts, i would be incredibly frightened that the standard of care of the person operating on them would be compromised.

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Anonymous #3 13w

People get mastectomies and hysterectomies and appendectomies preventatively all the time, so let's not make untrue statements about invasive surgeries not being done preventatively. Your sister should get a second opinion

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Anonymous OP 13w

mastectomies are less invasive than breast reductions. i have never heard of anyone getting a hysterectomy or appendectomy preventatively and having had it covered fully by insurance.

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Anonymous OP 13w

she obviously has if i’m bringing this up. you sound like a young kid who just doesn’t know how the healthcare system works, and if you’re going to get anywhere advocating for trans rights within a system, you have to educate yourself on how that system is working now first.

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Anonymous #3 13w

Okay now you have. My mom. Now what?

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Anonymous #3 13w

"Educate yourself first" and your whole view is "my sister couldn't get it so you're wrong" lol

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Anonymous OP 13w

presuming you’re not mistaken about it being fully covered by insurance, a preventing cancer is still a different animal than a cosmetic surgery that is NOT gender-affirming and has NO indications of clinical necessity. to the medical insurance company paying for it, that is preventing them from paying more down the line.

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Anonymous OP 13w

are we pulling from real life examples or is your mom a moot point too?

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Anonymous OP 13w

don’t get me wrong; gender-affirming care is necessary and should be covered. i’m arguing that cosmetic surgery for people with no clinical indications of necessity related to a medical disorder that can’t be treated by lower-risk means should not.

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Anonymous #3 13w

You can't use an example of someone not getting something as evidence that people don't get it, you can use an example and someone getting something to prove that people do get it. Anecdotes aren't moot points unless they literally don't prove the point you're trying to make lol you can't say it's doesn't rain in Nevada just because it didn't rain when you went, I can can it does rain in Nevada because I've seen it rain before.

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Anonymous OP 13w

i used evidence of one person not getting something as evidence that at least one person has not gotten something. you’re overgeneralizing. you cannot use your mom to say ALL people get preventative surgeries fully covered either.

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Anonymous #3 13w

All I'm saying is I've never heard of insurance paying for someone to get weight reduction surgery if it's not medically necessary but I have heard of people killing themselves trying to be skinny. Not that I'm advocating for this, but for sake of argument, id argue the weight loss surgery is a much lower risk means to an end than people starving themselves or flying to DR for a cheap bbl that could kill them but that's just me

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Anonymous #3 13w

I didn't say my mom is an example to say all people do lol you can't argue against something I never claimed yet you keep doing that

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Anonymous OP 13w

medical insurance isn’t paying for those people to starve themselves/commit suicide/get international surgeries. it SHOULD pay for them to go to an inpatient weight loss program, go to a nutritionist, or go to therapy.

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Anonymous #3 13w

I mean insurance could pay for trans people to go to therapy and cosmetic classes (hair/nails/makeup/lashes) and call it a day for trans woman since it's not as invasive but that's not what it's limited to. That's the point I'm making that you're missing lol

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Anonymous OP 13w

cosmetic classes aren’t a recognized medical therapy, and talk therapy is already covered

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Anonymous #3 13w

Talk therapy isn't covered by all insurance and sending somebody to a nutritionist to tell you what you should eat to be skinny is essentially the same impact as sending somebody to a cosmetologist to learn that they should do to be pretty like be real. Ignoring that though, the real point is if surgery is an option for trans people why isn't it an option for people whose mental health issues could be remedied by surgery but they aren't tied to gender? (1/2)

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Anonymous #3 13w

Like why is gender dysphoria the only mental issue that warrants cosmetic surgery and none of the other ones do. You could have boobs just by gaining weigh and getting a push up bra and frankly as an A cup haver myself, that's not even necessary lol flat girls are still girls. You don't need surgery to be more of a girl the same way you don't need surgery to be a size 2 yet in one case insurance will cover it for mental reason and the other it won't. Why?

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Anonymous OP 13w

the “problem” with trans people is that they were born in the wrong body. the “problem” with people who want to be a size 2 is that they have been socialized into unhealthy beauty standards. and you’re still not weighing the risk against the reward. someone who is trans will be satisfied after their body matches their identity, whereas someone who has been socialized into wanting to be thin as a rail both (a) probably still isn’t going to be satisfied if they get a surgery to do so, and

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Maybe this was not said in the most eloquent or unproblematic way but please just assume best intent and read for the point not for the language used

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Anonymous OP 13w

I had to pay to get mine removed. Mine were small and only cost $3,000. Did it in the plastic surgeons office. Saved like $5,000 by not being under anesthesia and not having to stay in a hospital

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Anonymous OP 13w

the issue is ur not understanding. for some of us it isn't just a random cosmetic surgery, it is life saving care that drastically improves our quality of living or, for some, saves our life. ur not listening when we tell u that gender dysphoria can be debilitating.

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