Anonymous #1 12w

i think most of them are more like half joking where they don’t literally hate every single man but they are genuinely frustrated with men in general

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Anonymous #1 12w

Honestly even in cases where it’s a joke it does ostracize many male passing people and at the very least makes a massive chunk of the community feel unwelcome and uncomfortable

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Anonymous #3 12w

They’re almost always transphobic in one way or another At best u get the type who don’t have a problem with trans men for some unexplainable reason At worst u get the calling trans women “males” type

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Anonymous OP 12w

i think it’s just hard for people to verbalize but to my best understanding i believe it’s because the issues people have with men often are directly connected with patriarchal values and permission structures that often only apply to people who were socialized within the confines of traditional masculinity. that’s why people often aren’t talking about gay men or feminine men when complaining

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Anonymous #4 12w

In my experience it’s usually been feminists who just spend all day screaming about trans people in women’s only spaces That’s just my experience thou so idk 🤷‍♀️

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Anonymous OP 12w

I think its inherently anti-feminist to behave that way and thats what I mean when I say its typically right wingers who think they’re centrist.

6

Anonymous OP 12w

this is really not the experience i’ve had personally w most ppl who are critical of men. at least the people i have in my life, are equally critical of trans men who perpetuate harmful behaviors

10

Anonymous #6 12w

I have experienced so many 😭😭😭 Chill at first but then some topic comes up and every single one I’ve tried to be friends with starts dropping anti trans shit heavier than most Nazis I’ve experienced

4

yeah but i think a big part of it is simultaneously getting to benefit from it in the same way cishet men do makes one move through the world differently

3

Anonymous OP 12w

That absolutely sucks and I’m sorry that has been your experience! A lot of my friend group is very critical of men and we are all avidly supportive of trans rights, many of us being trans.

5

remember it’s not just about misogyny bc even women can be misogynistic

7

Anonymous #8 12w

THIS. Love the queer community but gay men exist in a weird state where they aren’t attracted to women and are raised to hate being feminine cause it’s queer so when they reach adulthood they see women and femininity as genuinely evil. The number of gay men on apps I’ve seen put “No fats, no femmes” is CRAZY.

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Anonymous OP 12w

yeah terfs are the opposite of feminism. i agree with 4 wholeheartedly

5

Anonymous #3 12w

-How do you define “men” in a way that doesn’t just become bioessentialism or transphobic via “socialization” -TERFs use this rhetoric to radicalize ppl -Ostracizes queer men -Guilts trans men for wanting to transition -Harmful to non-passing, closeted, pre-transition, or unable to transition trans women -Perpetuates anti-masculinity that ends up being weaponized against butch or intersex cis women Need I go on?

0

Anonymous #6 12w

That’s incredibly surprising because I’ve never met an “all men are pigs” person who doesn’t actively perpetuate transphobic rhetoric if I spend enough time with them.

1

Anonymous #10 12w

I left a comment, decided to delete cause I think it was too long and waxing. I think the point is everyone on this thread is right and a good way to make sure a movement doesn’t leant too far into one direction is to keep dialogues open like this. I may say I hate men and know that I support trans rights but I’m glad there are others out there who are willing to critique and find faults in my logic and steer me on the right path

3

Anonymous #11 12w

I’m an “all men are pigs” believer and that’s crazy of them to just be doing that shit all the time. I am sorry dude, that sucks big time. :/

4

Anonymous #6 12w

I don’t see how you can possibly subscribe to gender essentialism and claim to support trans people. This rhetoric has been personally harmful to me and been weaponized by transphobes constantly to justify systemic transphobia. If you hate men, you hate me living my life in a way that’s most authentic to me, and that kind of behavior around me directly led to me feeling guilted for being who I was. I didn’t get LIFE SAVING MEDICATION because I was afraid it would make me unlovable, because that-

0

Anonymous #6 12w

—is how the people around me talked about men. As unlovable. As inherently disgusting and less worthy of kindness and human interaction. BECAUSE of their gender. Because of MY gender. There is no way to hate men and not harm trans people.

0

Anonymous #10 12w

I don’t hate men as individuals, I hate the system of men. I have friends who are men and I’m amab so I know what it’s like to be a man. And because of this, I’ve seen how men are allowed to skirt by, to do things because boys will be boys, to live in a world separate from reality. All men get access to this little world where consequences apply differently and I hate that, but I don’t hate the man, I hate MEN, the patriarchy, and the system. Individuals a perfect world, everyone is equal and-

8

Anonymous #6 12w

And good. But we live in a world where generations of harm have built this awful system and I hate that. Men, cis or trans or anything in between, have no fault and should hate the system too. Hate that men are given unfair advantages and forced to be macho and strong and lack emotions. There is a difference between hating the system and hating the individual. I love my fellow man, but I hate the system of men. I hope that makes sense

8

Anonymous #6 12w

Men are not a system, men are a gender though!! When you say men, the people around you interpret that as men. The MEN around you, the queer and trans men around you, interpret that as THEM. It does DEMONSTRABLE HARM in the REAL WORLD to equate the gender with the system. Patriarchy is the system. As someone who has been personally harmed by this rhetoric, I am BEGGING you to say what you mean if you care even a little bit about both the people around you and the movement you want to support.

2

Anonymous #10 12w

That is your lived experience and I can’t fault that. On the internet it’s probably not good to say “hate all men” because people will inevitably take it out of the context I mean it in like all arguments on the internet are. My man friends (cis and trans) all dunk on men often and joke about how shitty guys are because we understand the context we mean it in. But I get your point, not everyone will arrive to the same meaning of the phrase and take it literally. So I will rephrase-

10

Anonymous #6 12w

“I HATE THE PATRIARCHY AND THE SYSTEM OF MEN. GENDER IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT AND GENDER NORMS CAN KISS MY SHINY METAL ASS”. Thank you for walking me through it.

9

Anonymous #10 12w

i am seriously not trying to be rude, but if it’s affecting you that much i do think it’s kind of a you issue. like if you are not perpetuating toxic masculine traits you shouldn’t be offended when someone is critiquing toxic masculine traits. queer and trans men can also be culprits of perpetuating this so i think it should be taken more as a “please don’t be like this, this harms femme people” than a “i hate you for being a man die”

4

Anonymous #7 12w

Your Honor I was literally 13 and undiagnosed autistic.

1

Anonymous #7 12w

Also like,,, saying “all men are evil” is not “critiquing toxic masculine traits.” Saying “men are gross because they stink and are covered in body hair, they’re not pretty like women except for maybe a few” is not “critiquing toxic masculine traits.” It’s fucking sexism that hurts BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, BOTH AMAB AND AFAB.

3

Anonymous #7 12w

I’m also not the only trans man I know who’s expressed this. It’s an ongoing harmful problem I see in my community, which could be easily fixed by saying what you mean. I’m BEGGING you, I have seen younger and pre transition trans guys cry because they’ve constantly been met with rhetoric that degrades them. I’m asking you to make an unbelievably simple and easy change in your language that will both clarify your actual meaning and reduce real world harm. Isn’t that what trans allies support?

6

Anonymous #7 12w

Huge “don’t be so sensitive, bro, you and everyone else who feels this way are just overreacting” vibes.

1

Anonymous #10 12w

i’m not even an “i hate men” person to be clear. i understand your point but a large portion of people are not saying what you think they’re saying

3

Anonymous #10 12w

ty #10

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Anonymous #10 12w

tyty 💓💓

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Anonymous #10 12w

i say the same thing tho!!

1

Anonymous #3 11w

It's a double entendre with what was said before and the T being testosterone. Trust me, I know: I'm a rapper from New York.

3