Anonymous ellie 5w

no, lets not blame Kamala. If this was Kamala vs literally ANYONE else, your comment may be right. But it was Donald trump. You all knew what he was going to do. His game plan was laid out in project 2025. Yall are fucking nitwits for thinking getting Donald trump back in office is in anyway better than Kamala Harris. We are all suffering cuz yall pretentious assholes didn’t vote. This wasn’t the time to take a stand against centrist democrats. Wait until the orange fatass dies then pull this.

17

Anonymous #2 5w

once again Kamala ran on a shit platform. she could have definitely won if she didn't sacrifice her campaign to appease the old fucks at the DNC.

-7

Anonymous ellie 5w

telling pro palestine protesters to "shut up", doubling down on a pro-israel stance, and refusing to stand up for trans healthcare did not endear her.

-7

Anonymous ellie 5w

I’m not saying her campaign was good by any means but a pile of shit would be a better president than Donald trump. Not voting for her over Palestine is the dumbest decision you can make im sorry. There’s no justifying it. Believing that Donald trump would be any better for Palestine or trans people is a sign of mental impairment imo. Idc what criticisms you have of Kamala, if you are left leaning and decided not to vote, you voted for trump. You are part of the reason we are in this situation

11

Anonymous #2 5w

i'm not saying i didn't vote lol. just that i understand the position, and the only one who fucked harris over in the end was herself.

-5

Anonymous ellie 5w

I understand their position too but it’s a wrong position to take. Saying you care about Palestine and the lgbtq community then choosing not to vote, endangering Palestine and lgbtq even more was an objectively terrible decision to make. Kamala did the best she could in 100 days but it’s a lot more complicated than just fully blaming her. The democrats are using an outdated playbook. Being well educated and explaining the details of her policies did not sway the voters. It made her seem elitist.

9

Anonymous ellie 5w

Instead trump weaponized the frustration of the American people and aimed it at immigrants/trans ppl. His team infiltrated online male spaces. He took advantage of uneducated people and their emotions. Democrats definitely should be more progressive but progressives should also have enough common sense to know that putting Donald trump in the White House isn’t the right way to send that message. Now we all suffer cuz of their selfishness

7

Anonymous #2 5w

the issue wasn't her not explaining her policies. the issue was the policies themselves. she was running on a super unpopular platform and did absolutely nothing to change her position even after seeing that it was unpopular—just relying on the fact that she wasn't Trump to win the election like biden did. the issue is Biden poisoned the well for that route.

-5

Anonymous #2 5w

i dont think it was ever about putting trump in the whitehouse for progressives. that's an option nobody wants. i understand why they abstained while voting between two genocidal candidates. especially as kamala didn't appeal to the working class, and many marginalized populations as she should have. instead, she tried to win the votes of republicans and moderates, which was absolutely braindead.

-3

Anonymous ellie 5w

no, that’s not true. She laid out her platform, to give money to help new homeowners, new businesses. She wanted to tax the rich. How is that not appealing to the working class? People didn’t listen. She laid out her policies. Even expert economists agreed she was better for the average American. They didn’t listen to the facts. And seeing the two as equally “genocidal” is plain fucking stupid. Trump literally handed Gaza over to Israel now look at Palestine? You think they’re doing good?

7

Anonymous ellie 5w

I agree she appealed to moderates too much but that’s no excuse to see them two as equally as bad. At least Biden/harris were trying to advocate for a ceasefire. Trump hasn’t done a thing to help Palestine. Even so, giving your vote to trump not only fucks over Palestine, but fucks over every single American and marginalized group here. Throwing us all under the bus over one issue is brain dead and selfish. It’s not valid.

6

Anonymous #2 5w

not a lot of people can afford homes now to begin with, so that money was primarily going to the middle class. business owners are petite bourgeoise. she might have been better, but she still ultimately supports and upholds capitalism, which will never be good for America.

0

Anonymous #2 5w

a ceasefire does nothing for palestine either. israel is notorious for violating ceasefires. israel is established on stolen land. they want to create an ethnostate and will not stop until the entirety of palestine is wiped out.

0

Anonymous #2 5w

i'm not talking about voting for trump here either. even if all third party voters had voted for harris she still would have lost.

-2

Anonymous ellie 5w

Millions of Americans decided not to vote. If everyone showed up like they did in 2020 then we wouldn’t ALL be suffering the way we are because of trump. I agree capitalism is not good for america but Kamala wouldn’t be erasing “woke” history, or appointing anti vaxxers to be in charge of public health, or increasing prices with tariffs, or making the entire world hate us, or building concentration camps and deporting immigrants without due process, or firing comedians who bash her, trying to

7

Anonymous ellie 5w

control the media. There is no way you can put it that would make me think their stance is valid. Donald trump is exponentially worse than Kamala would’ve been. Them throwing immigrants under the bus, disabled, lgbtq, women, all of us got screwed over because Kamala’s stance on Palestine wasn’t up their snobbish standards? bro fuck them. This election was too crucial to pull that shit. I feel like im circling back to points I’ve already made. I’m not changing my mind.

6

Anonymous ellie 5w

There are other ways to let democrats know we aren’t satisfied with how they’re performing that doesn’t involve allowing nazi fascists to take over the country. We are all suffering every single day because of trump. Anyone who had a hand in this happening is at fault. Goddamn we just had to move past maga for good then we could’ve protested the democrats.

7

Anonymous #2 5w

agreed! we wouldn't see any of this under kamala. I think she would have been way better than trump. however, i don't think she would have been a good president. and i dont think she would have pushed us in the direction we need to be going in. we would see the class divide continuing to grow under her, palestine continuing to be genocided, and mass deportations still happening (although less than they currently are. ultimately she would be better, but still nowhere near good.

-4

Anonymous ellie 5w

Do you see trump pushing us in the direction we need to be going in, then? Because you seem to be implying that.

5

Anonymous #3 5w

You are justifying people who didn’t vote or voted third party by saying that because Harris wouldn't have "pushed the US in the right direction" we then.... needed Trump? Like I’m sorry but there is no reality where one of them wouldn't have been elected as president. There’s just not (save one or both of them dying, I guess, but that’s not a reasonable expectation here). I am not typically a binary thinker but our electoral system is Literally A Binary. There was no secret third option.

7

Anonymous #3 5w

no. i never once implied that. we do not live in a binary world. both of the candidates can be awful and unpalatable. just because i dislike Kamala doesn't mean i magically like trump.

-3

Anonymous #3 5w

our electoral system has and always will be flawed. there will be an american revolution eventually, and that is option 3.

-3

Anonymous ellie 5w

Ellie is right. Why are we to blame for democrats not doing anything to make us want to vote for them? In a democracy, you don’t owe anyone your vote. Which is ironic because the same ones blaming us are the ones saying we’re “losing our democracy”.

0

Anonymous landtrust 5w

And to be clear I voted for Jill Stein because I will not compromise my values for someone who supports LITERAL GENOCIDE

0

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Literally. I guess to them, minorities only matter domestically, and because palestine is overseas the queer people don't matter as much. genocide out of sight is out of mind!

1

Anonymous ellie 5w

queer people there*

1

Anonymous #5 5w

Basically, turnout was up in swing states, even Kamala gained more votes in some than Biden had, but Trump’s gains were more, the swing of voters was enough to favor him in those states that it would’ve ended up being another “Dem wins pv, Rep wins ec” had turnout been up nationally

1

Anonymous ellie 5w

And what do you get for standing up for these people? “A big fuck you” from establishment democrats! No wonder they lost!

3

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Guys let’s use our brain. In the USA, we have a two party system. The majority of votes will always either go to the Democratic or Republican Party okay? That’s just how it is right now whether you like it or not. If you’re at least 18, you have the right and duty to vote and have your voice be heard. In 2024, you had 2 options. Option 1: a candidate who isnt the best for Palestine but you can feel safe knowing they won’t harm minorities here, or Option 2: a candidate that will harm Palestine

3

Anonymous #2 5w

kamala's policies still harm minorities. class disparity exists and would have continued growing

-1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

And minorities here to a great extent. What you’re essentially saying is that you are justified in throwing your vote away and giving your vote to the OBVIOUS worst choice because of your “values”? Bro fuck you. Idc about your values. This election was way too crucial for you to be acting like this. Now we are stuck with the candidate that not only handed Palestine on a gold platter over to Israel, now we are all fucked over your selfishness. You feeling proud of your vote? You think the ppl in

6

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Palestine are grateful trump’s in office? I don’t think so!!

5

Anonymous #2 5w

if harris had won we would have ended up exactly here in 4 years. these sentiments don't just vanish.

-1

Anonymous ellie 5w

What we have been trying to explain is that voting in the 2024 election is essentially the trolley problem but either way the people in palestine are getting harmed, but one outcome harms us ALL. So anyone with a fucking brain should see it’s better to vote for the option that causes less harm then use your voice after to hold them accountable. Cuz now as someone who’s lgbtq, im under attack every day cuz of trump. I have every right to be mad at yall for having a hand in this happening

4

Anonymous ellie 5w

Bro I already explained to you how Harris is exponentially better than trump. Harris would not have done a fraction of the authoritarian shit trump has. I am not spelling it out for you again. Would Harris have been good? Probably not? Idk she didn’t get elected, but we know for a FACT she would be better than trump. Jesus Christ for someone who didn’t not vote, you sure seem to be passionate about defending these people.

4

Anonymous #2 5w

it's an infinite trolley problem. things will never get significantly better under capitalism. we always lose nomatter what.

-1

Anonymous ellie 5w

How many times do I have to fucking it explain it to you? -if you are left leaning and you didn’t vote for Kamala Harris, your vote went to trump -trump is in EVERY way an exponentially worse president than Kamala would have ever been for palestine and for minority groups here -not voting for Kamala directly harms palestine and minorities here and yes you should be blamed for your selfish and ignorant decision Idc how hard you guys try to justify it. You were wrong in your decisions.

4

Anonymous #2 5w

because they are both capitalists and serve the same billionaires. we all continue to get poorer while the rich get richer. they want us to fear for our rights. they want to stick us with an impossible choice.

-3

Anonymous ellie 5w

No stop trying to make the argument that things would be equally bad or similarly bad under both. Stop it. The democrats would not be attacking “wokeness” aka social progress for marginalized groups. Maybe things won’t get significantly better under Harris, but we know they wouldn’t have gotten significantly worse under here. Trump’s only he in office for like 7 months and things have already gotten significantly worse. Stop trying to justify it. We are a fascist country because of him.

6

Anonymous #2 5w

democrats chose not to codify roe v wade so that they could use it as a tool to drive voting. they could have but chose not to.

-2

Anonymous #2 5w

so they're just meh for the next four years and then get significantly worse.

-2

Anonymous #2 5w

we are a fascist country regardless. this country is established on the dead bodies of minorities. we cannot act like it's anything else

-2

Anonymous ellie 5w

who gives a fuck? That’s not relevant to this argument. The point I am making is that trump is a million times worse for us and will caused a million times more suffering than Kamala Harris ever would so those who were too pretentious to vote for here are to blame and should be held accountable for their decision. I keep explaining the same things to you and you’re not getting it. So much unnecessary suffering is and will happening under trump that wouldn’t have happened under Harris.

5

Anonymous #2 5w

it's completely relevant lol. the system is fucked nomatter what

-2

Anonymous ellie 5w

Is this all you’re gonna do? Genuinely save me the time. Stop acting like the republicans and democrats are comparable in any way. Stop acting like the democrats are in any way as bad as republicans right now. Let me know right now if you’re too stubborn to see my side and admit im right? Cuz your stance is that you think its alright millions are getting kicked off healthcare, and it’s okay immigrants are getting shoved into concentration camps cuz “the democrats would’ve done the same”

5

Anonymous ellie 5w

The system is fucked way more under trump than Kamala. The people harmed because of trump are valid too. Throwing them under the bus over palestine was bad and we have every right to be upset by them. End of fucking story.

5

Anonymous ellie 5w

Objectively speaking, and from literally what’s happening, the democrats and republicans are different and distinct from each other in a multitude of ways, literally the policies the GOP is implementing now and what the democrats were doing the past 4 years, completely different. “Both parties same durrr” is like some 2004 shit, it’s been 20 years and polarization and coalition changes within the parties have differed their policies and platforms from each other drastically.

6

Anonymous #2 5w

the system is still fucked regardless. it's the same system that allowed trump a victory lol

-3

Anonymous #2 5w

how do you think i feel while y'all are out here supporting a system that will always have our rights up for sacrifice, and a candidate who would have perpetuated that system

-3

Anonymous ellie 5w

Then you should have had the common sense to know just how dangerous trump would have been, voted for her anyways even if you don’t agree with everything she does cuz you know how much his presidency will hurt the American people, then protested her after she won. You’re justifying fucking over minorities and poor ppl cuz you “don’t like the system.”

6

Anonymous ellie 5w

I’m sick of listening to your shit. You’re disregarding all the pain and suffering trump has caused saying they’re equally as bad when you know Kamala wouldn’t have caused any of this. You already admitted yesterday that trump is way worse. Stop acting like we were just gonna destroy the 2 party system in one election cycle. Live in reality.

6

Anonymous #2 5w

yeah trump was dangerous. so was reagan, and bush, and obama, and Jackson, etc etc they all still get voted. we all lose rights and then gain some back in a cycle. this happens every fucking time y'all. at least now american imperialism is starting to collapse.

-3

Anonymous ellie 5w

which party do we tend to gain our rights back during? Democrats. Which party takes them away? Republicans.

7

Anonymous ellie 5w

The only thing that would justify trump’s presidency is a complete collapse of the system. But we don’t know if that’s gonna happen so right now we’re all just constantly suffering and are under attack. It seems like right now you’re happy trump won.

2

Anonymous ellie 5w

Listen, I’m glad you’re privileged enough to not have to worry about all the austerity and shit that’s cutting crucial programs that keep people alive, I got family who are losing healthcare access and shit. The “mutual aid” or whatever yall are gonna propose ain’t gonna make up for even 5% of what the working class will lose, and this is the same shit libertarians say “oh well just do stuff through charity”. 75% chance you’re white btw

6

Anonymous #2 5w

the fact of the matter is, they both still support a system that enables this while doing nothing to actually make sure our rights are infallible.

-2

Anonymous #5 5w

and i'm glad you can sit here and call a trans person who didn't vote for trump, or this shit to happen privileged. i'm glad you can call the indigent folks who were misled into voting for trump and are losing their healthcare and social safety net privileged.

-2

Anonymous #5 5w

it's really easy to point at the voters and say they're privileged while completely ignoring the billionaires who are actually profiting off of this. isn't it?

-2

Anonymous ellie 5w

Well the system exists. There’s no getting around it. One party does nothing, and the other actively harms vulnerable groups of ppl. You’re saying both parties are the same. Both are equally bad. And that you’re totally fine with millions being kicked of their health insurance, history being erased, medical research being defunded, rights being taken away, immigrants being kidnapped and shoved into concentration camps without due process, etc etc. You’re okay with all that suffering because

6

Anonymous ellie 5w

I never called those Trump voters privileged, yet you clearly have the privilege not to give af about the policies that are happening to the point you acquiesce or not care about this Trump shit and discourage people from voting. In regards to the trans factor, you are not, yet that doesn’t excuse you from criticism.

8

Anonymous ellie 5w

Kamala would have done the same? That’s a brain dead fucking take. And yeah #5 is correct. It’s a privileged ass stance to take that just because you don’t personally like the system, you think it’s justified to not participate in it, knowing it will harm MILLIONS. You put MILLIONS of lives and livelihoods in danger with your selfishness. Stop trying to justify it. You’re wrong.

7

Anonymous #2 5w

they are both leading to harm towards the proletariat yes. i think harris probably would have been a little bit better. not great, but a tiny bit better. this is the hand we have though. and instead of pointing blame at a largely indigent voter base, we should be blaming the politicians and billionaires.

-4

Anonymous ellie 5w

It is perfectly fine to have criticisms of the Democratic Party, but what’s not find is handing over our country to a fucking fascist because the democrats don’t live up to your standard. You KNOW they’re better than republicans and you chose not to make your voice heard. You are at fault. You are to blame. You are part of the reason millions are suffering. End of fucking discussion.

5

Anonymous #5 5w

who said i don't gaf?!? i'm literally furious. but that doesn't change the fact that kamala would have still perpetuated a negative system. saying otherwise is ignorant of the material conditions that have led us here/

-1

Anonymous #2 5w

false. Harris, Trump, the DNC, billionaires are to blame.

-1

Anonymous ellie 5w

She’s not a little bit better. She would have been extremely better. I have already given you a grocery list of harmful things trump has done that Kamala wouldn’t have. She wouldn’t have defunded crucial programs, resulting in mass layoffs. She wouldn’t have put tariffs on goods causing prices to rise. Stop acting like one is slight better than the other. You’re a dipshit im sorry.

2

Anonymous ellie 5w

I really don’t get the American left tbh, in literally every other country the left actively partakes in electoral politics and builds coalitions within in, and yall just sit here doing nothing but saying “system bad don’t vote” while offering no alternative lmao, no influence on policy, nothing, and those that do yall cast out as “traitors” and sellouts, AOC (The Squad) and Bernie, and Mamdani got more work done than like literally any other leftist in this country

3

Anonymous ellie 5w

And yall don’t appreciate them because they’re not calling for an armed uprising or some shit. Makes no sense

6

Anonymous #5 5w

every other country actually has a left with progressive policy. when you look at policy here the democrats are only slightly more progressive than the republicans. AOC is a class traitor. she's going to the met gala in an "eat the rich dress" while her constituents continue to suffer.

-3

Anonymous ellie 5w

nah im done talking to you. You’re fucking dense. I’ve already explained to you in great detail why you’re wrong and you’re still refusing to take accountability. People like you are the reasons millions are suffering. You had one job to vote and couldn’t even do that. Go fuck yourself you privilege sack of shit.

6

Anonymous #5 5w

bernie is now in support of israel and doesn't consider capitalism to be an enemy, but something to be worked within.

-2

Anonymous #5 5w

Mamdani has good goals, but they're unfeasible to achieve in the position of mayor, and within capitalism.

-2

Anonymous #2 5w

accountability for what?? my one vote that i cast for harris? ur literally ridiculous. you're blaming me for policy i don't control rather than those who do, and who perpetuate this awful system.

-2

Anonymous #2 5w

the fact of the matter is y'all are sitting here and blaming poor steel workers for casting votes for a guy who said he was gonna bring back manufacturing, and for minorities who refused to vote for genocide, over those who actually drive policy, trump, and harris.

-2

Anonymous #2 5w

all i have left to say is y'all have zero class consciousness, and i hope you can overcome your terminal liberalism. have a good day

-2

Anonymous ellie 5w

Calling yourself class conscious when you’re hurting the working class is crazy lmao. Also, not a liberal. Ironic though that liberals are more aware of class politics than poser leftists lmao

4

Anonymous #5 5w

saying your class conscious while blaming indigent voters and minorities for the current circumstances over the bourgeoisie all the while ignoring the conditions that have led us here...

-1

Anonymous #2 5w

“In the USA, we have a 2 party system.” Says who? For how long? Is it permanent?

1

Anonymous ellie 5w

I’m not a leftist I’m a moderate

0

Anonymous landtrust 5w

"lets get angry at minorities for not voting the way i want them to while doing absolutely nothing to address their struggles under capitalism!" 😀

2

Anonymous landtrust 5w

The 2 party system existed on November 4th 2024. You knew your two choices. Not voting for Kamala is a vote for trump. If you voted for what’s going on rn, we have every right to be upset at you, regardless of the reason why. And that’s something you have to live with.

3

Anonymous ellie 5w

I never blamed indigent voters and minorities

4

Anonymous #5 5w

that is what y'all are doing. sitting here and yapping about how privileged they are

-2

Anonymous #2 5w

Didn’t answer my question. You had more than 2 choices but you had no courage

1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Don’t blame me for your lack of courage

0

Anonymous ellie 5w

I never yapped about how privileged they were? For a group of people who claim to read a lot yall sure as shit have piss poor comprehension, seems not much has changed when I was the type of leftist like you 5 years ago lmao

3

Anonymous #5 5w

huh

1

Anonymous #5 5w

yeah that's exactly why you bring up privilege when you think that someone voted a way you didn't want them too...

-1

Anonymous ellie 5w

to*

0

Anonymous ellie 5w

Yeah that’s not me saying that people who voted a different way are privileged.

3

Anonymous landtrust 5w

It’s not courage, it’s stupidity. You know damn well the 2 party system isn’t gonna magically disappear in one election cycle. Yall do fucking NOTHING of courage to eliminate it during the first 3 years of a president’s term. Yall wait to an election year to open your mouth when there’s not enough time to make actual change. Go out right now and organize to get rid of the 2 party system. Voting for a 3rd party candidate when you are left leaning is giving your vote to trump. Common fucking sense

5

Anonymous #5 5w

but yet that's your retort when you encounter that exact scenario... c'mon... be so fr

-1

Anonymous #2 5w

Yall need to live in fucking reality. I consider myself to be leftist and progressive but I also have common sense. And I can sleep soundly at night at least knowing I did what I could to prevent trump from getting into office. I’m sorry reality doesn’t cater to your high standards. But we currently have a 2 party system. Even if you don’t like both candidates, you KNOW one is better than the other. Choosing not to vote for the better one means you voted for the one that’s a million times worst.

2

Anonymous #2 5w

so yeah theory based education is doing exactly that! we actually are organizing in groups. the RCA and similar groups are gaining major traction and showing up to events like the 50501 protests! meanwhile y'all just sit back and throw up your hands blaming minorities after every lost election.

-1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

3rd parties in presidential elections are symbolic at best, especially the Green Party which is less sophisiticated than the libertarian party. Neither of them focus on building a support network from local government offices nor running for elections locally at first, it’s always them just popping up in the presidential election season and that’s it, it’s impractical. If Jill Stein were to win, how would she govern? There’s no one in Congress and no one at state levels to complement her.

3

Anonymous #2 5w

It’s a privilege or stupidity. Privilege to not care about the outcomes of trump’s presidency because you think standing up for palestine (news flash you only made things worst for Palestine) justifies the widespread suffering of Americans and minorities here. Or stupidity to vote for trump. Idc what reason you voted for trump or didn’t vote for Kamala. I’m mad at you. There’s no justifying that shit. That doesn’t mean I’ll hate them forever (assuming they regret their vote). But yeah im angry.

2

Anonymous #2 5w

actually no. things are about the same for palestine as both trump and harris said they would support israel.

-1

Anonymous #2 5w

and once again you're pointing that anger at the wrong place. so yeah. people did vote third party. harris would have still lost with their votes...

-1

Anonymous ellie 5w

I already said im done talking to you so shut up. Stop tryna strawman this argument by saying we are “blaming minorities” when it’s minorities that overwhelmingly voted for Kamala. We are blaming self righteous idiots who can’t accept reality and think handing their vote to trump is justifiable in any way.

2

Anonymous #2 5w

maybe get angry at the politicians who exploit the poor for votes while profiting off of their suffering

-1

Anonymous #2 5w

don't forget poor people! you're blaming them too!

-1

Anonymous ellie 5w

Leave me alone im arguing with the other dipshit rn

3

Anonymous #2 5w

yeah no. block me if u want idc

-2

Anonymous #2 5w

You still didn’t answer the question. It’s not stupid to recognize that there’s nothing permanent about the so called 2 party system. Your silence speaks volumes

-1

Anonymous #5 5w

Says who?

-1

Anonymous #2 5w

Minorities overwhelmingly didn’t vote btw

0

Anonymous landtrust 5w

“Your silence speaks volumes” bitch shut up. Your question isn’t relevant. The two party system existed on 11/4/2024. It’s not permanently… cuz the country won’t survive another trump presidency. But fr tho you’re not living in reality. The two party system existed on voting day, you had TWO options and you’re saying it’s okay to choose the nazi fascist. Genuinely there’s no loophole or getting out of the system. That was the reality of the 2024 election. Harris or trump. No third party—

2

Anonymous #2 5w

so yeah let's blame poor people for voting for a candidate who did nothing to appeal to them and minorities for not voting for a genocidal leader!

-1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

candidate had a chance at winning. Your choices were (1) lady who won’t attacking every American and make herself into a dictator and (2) orange fatass who will raise prices, create concentration camps, defund medical science, erase history, fire media figures who criticize him, strip lgbtq ppl of their rights, hand over Gaza to Israel, and many more atrocities. You can fight eliminating the 2 party system AFTER a threat as dangerous as trump has been neutralized, but you didn’t. You mindless—

4

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Fools decided that the most crucial election in all our lives is finally the one where we all need to take a stand and show the democrats what they get for not being perfect. Like Jesus Christ use your fucking head. Trump’s plan was LAID out in project 2025. He used immigrants and trans ppl as national scapegoats for all our problems and you thought it was okay to sit this one out? How many times do I have to explain this to you.

2

Anonymous #2 5w

harris would have: raised prices ✅ mass deportations ✅ erased history ✅ hand over gaza to israel ✅

-3

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Throwing every single person under the bus (immigrants, palestine, lgbtq+, the disabled, the poor, women), handing your vote to trump because you personally don’t like the 2 party system or the democrats, is INEXCUSABLE. It was incredibly selfish, reckless, and privileged for you to sit this one out. You are not justified in your horrible behavior. I am not changing my stance. There is nothing you can say to make me validate you. Live with that and save us both time. I’m sick of repeating myself

4

Anonymous #2 5w

ahhh yes please keep blaming people in marginalized communities for her loss!!!

-2

Anonymous #2 5w

GROW UP AND LIVE IN REALITY. The reality of the situation on 11/4/24 was you either chose Kamala Harris or Donald trump. Not voting for Harris meant you chose trump. Choosing trump has caused irreparable damage to MILLIONS of people. You are at fault. You are wrong. Cope. Eat shit. I’m done talking to your ignorant ass too. You’re both childish and selfish.

4

Anonymous #2 5w

okay liberal

-2

Anonymous ellie 5w

I’m impressed that you think you functionally did something important by not voting or voting third party. Please explain to me what that actually accomplished here that IS NOT "it made me feel good about myself." What tangible impact did you make? Because from where I'm sitting, you helped kill me. Give me a straight answer on what your vote practically did here.

5

Anonymous ellie 5w

My question debunks your lie that “we live in a 2 party system” so it makes sense you’d be afraid to answer it

1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Whoops wrong person that was for #2

1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

#2 when you went to vote, you saw multiple parties. Maybe 5 or 6 of them. But somehow you think we have a 2 party system? You only think that because you don’t have the courage to bubble in another circle on the list

0

Anonymous ellie 5w

Ellie is 1000% correct. The more you downvote her the more certain I am of it

0

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Alright here’s a challenge for you: tell me a single president after 1870 that was NOT a democrat or republican. I’ll wait. No shot there’s multiple parties on the ballot but only democrats or republicans win over states. Once again: Live in reality. You throw your vote away when you vote third party. Get that through your head.

4

Anonymous landtrust 5w

“The person that agrees with me is 1000% correct. Even though the majority of people disagree with us. I am not going to listen to them or try to understand their point because my brain is a rock and I’d rather live in a fantasy world than admit I am wrong”

1

Anonymous #2 5w

Stop running

1

Anonymous #2 5w

That person actually doesn’t agree with me. They just don’t lie to themselves unlike you

3

Anonymous #2 5w

Also America wasn’t founded in 1870 so you refuted your own point 😭

2

Anonymous landtrust 5w

You are so fucking stupid dude. 1870 was 150 years ago. Okay. Every single election over the last 150 years either went to a democrat or a republican. Okay there is virtually ZERO chance of a third party candidate winning for a very long time!! Do you understand that? Please read this over as many times until you get it. Giving an argument that voting third party was an opinion is INVALID in an election as important as this.

3

Anonymous #2 5w

So because it hasn’t happened before (actually, it hasn’t happened in 150 years which isn’t a long time btw) then it will never happen. If everyone had your philosophy then we’d all be living like cavemen. Fortunately some of us have courage to try new things

1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

I’m not running I got better shit to do than argue with fucking idiots such as yourself and ellie on Yik yak all day. I’m sick of repeating myself over and over again just for it to go in one ear and out the other. All your points are garbage and not rooted in reality. How about you stop running from reality and accept not voting for Kamala was extremely irresponsible and selfish?

-1

Anonymous #2 5w

You are running when you choose to yap instead of answer the basic question: who told you we have a 2 party system permanently?

1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Mhm. And your “courage” resulted in there being a fascist Nazi running our country. So congrats o’brave one!! You showed the Democrats! Now we can enjoy watching palestine get obliterated, immigrants get deported without due process, gays lose their right to get married, Americans go bankrupt due to tariffs, the news be completely controlled by trump and many more! Congrats dude! You truly did the right thing!

4

Anonymous #2 5w

It’s not selfish to vote against genocide. Sometimes I regret my vote but then I see people like you and I fully change my mind

-1

Anonymous #2 5w

Trump isn’t a Nazi 😭

-1

Anonymous #2 5w

“Dictator on day 1” remember when your media scared you into believing that lie?

-1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

as much as I hate Trump and think Trump supporters are dumb. He isn’t a Nazi

-1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

But fr, tell me did it happen in 2024? Which candidate won in 2024? A democrat perhaps? A republican? Or was it fuck ass Jill stein? A third party candidate didn’t win a single state and now we’re all fucked. How many times do I have to tell you? This election was too important to take a stance jfc. also in 150 years is an extremely long time dumbass. No one from then is alive now.

4

Anonymous #2 5w

I would vote for Jill Stein 100 times over if it meant whoever you voted for LOSES

0

Anonymous #2 5w

It could’ve been Jill if people like you actually weren’t fraidy cats

-1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

“It’s not selfish to vote against genocide, I actually voted for genocide plus the extermination of immigrants, stripping lgbtq rights, the regression social progress, making it illegal for women to get healthcare, defunding of medical advancement, no more freedom of speech and press, and many more atrocities” this is how you sound right now.

2

Anonymous landtrust 5w

No one told me, that’s just how society is. Every election over the last century and a half has either gone to a republican or democrat. If we want that to change it’s going to take time but it wasn’t gonna change 11/4/24 so you think you did the right thing but no. You voted for trump. That’s it.

3

Anonymous #2 5w

Palestinians told me to vote for Jill, so are they being selfish too? Or was it just me since I’m the one in a comfortable armchair with the privilege to judge others for being “selfish” or not

1

Anonymous #2 5w

No, that’s not how society is. It’s the media who convinces you of this. It’s not real

1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

It could’ve been Kamala Harris if people like you weren’t completely fucking brain dead and stupid. Also he is a Nazi he’s using the exact same playbook as hitler. So congrats dude. You really showed em

2

Anonymous #2 5w

I voted for JILL STEIN and I’m proud. And if you knew what my beliefs were back then you’d realize how stupid it is to say I voted for Trump. If I wanted Trump, I would’ve checked his name

0

Anonymous #2 5w

I’m in a swing state btw

0

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Alr dude it’s clear you have no intention of living in reality. Come back and find me once you get a third party candidate to win anything. I have a life to live and im wasting it talking to you dipshits. And when you sleep at night you can sleep knowing you are partially responsible for all the suffering going on in Gaza and America. 🤗🤗🤗

1

Anonymous #2 5w

I did nothing wrong. It was YOUR candidate who’s to blame for not appealing to my interests. In a REAL democracy, I don’t owe ANYONE my vote

1

Anonymous #2 5w

And btw shaming people for not voting for your candidate FAILED. You LOST. So maybe try another strategy?

1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Palestinians in Gaza told me to vote for a Jill, so are they being selfish too? Or was it just me since I’m the one in a comfortable armchair with the privilege to judge others for being “selfish” or not

0

Anonymous landtrust 5w

yeah didn't they already try this with bernie? called minority voters "uneducated voters" after he lost...

1

Anonymous ellie 5w

Yep. If we want to actually start winning as democrats we need to stop going down this path. It’s proving to fail over and over

1

Anonymous #2 5w

ayo someone tag in for me I can’t deal with these clowns anymore. Delusional ass bitches

0

Anonymous #2 5w

“Tag in” see how it’s a game for these people? They don’t actually care about any of these things because none of it actually affects them. They just like the idea of caring and they get offended by everything

1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

i could've told you that. notice how they came to a chat full of minorities to bitch instead of a chat of trump supporters.

0

Anonymous ellie 5w

Y'all are really happy to dogpile #2 but don’t seem to want to answer my question about what your voting decisions materially accomplished for anyone 🧐

4

Anonymous #3 5w

idk i voted for harris so really nothing 🤷‍♀️

1

Anonymous ellie 5w

Ah, I’m not sure why you're arguing on this thread? (& I’m still curious abt the other person's answer who does say they voted for Stein). It seems like you recognize that there were two feasible options for the US president, voting-wise, (and I would LOVE for that to change), & as much as I'm not a fan of blaming people who have a more difficult time voting, I know a LOT of people who were perfectly able to vote easily and chose not to. Like, isn’t this about people who chose not to vote?

4

Anonymous #3 5w

In my head, someone who cannot vote is not someone who chose not to vote, bc they couldn't... choose to vote? I’m not sure how saying "hey if you chose not to vote you're at least minisculely responsible" (because lets be real there's a lot of responsibility to be spread around) somehow turns into "omg you're saying to be mean to poor people???" Like I just- am confused about how that correlation was drawn

3

Anonymous #3 5w

What are you curious about ?

0

Anonymous landtrust 5w

I've said it twice. I’m wondering what you wanted your tangible impact to be when voting third party. "Tangible" meaning "How it impacted the people around you." What did voting third party in this presidential election serve to do, materially, for other people?

2

Anonymous #3 5w

Your question presupposes we live in a democracy

0

Anonymous landtrust 5w

My question asks you directly about the material impact of your vote. Why are you afraid to answer directly?

3

Anonymous #3 5w

considering they voted third party, and harris lost by more than the amount who voted third party? negligible.

0

Anonymous ellie 5w

I don’t need you to answer for them. There is a point to making them do the work of finding an answer for themself.

3

Anonymous #3 5w

And my answer was your question presupposes that there is any impact any vote has

2

Anonymous #3 5w

Ellie has every right to reply to you btw

2

Anonymous ellie 5w

This entire thread is about people wanting to feel morally superior over something that does not matter anymore. Arguing about who was more right changes nothing and helps no one. I was hoping landtrust would say smth about how voting third party was part of a string of actions they've taken to evolve a third party, but instead they're dodging the question. Disappointing tbh

1

Anonymous #3 5w

I’m not dodging. I just refuse to concede things that aren’t correct. Your question makes assumptions but those assumptions are false

0

Anonymous landtrust 5w

And that’s not a direct answer. What I’m getting from that is you think it doesn’t matter at all how someone votes, and then I have no idea why you're spending all this time and energy arguing with someone that, to you, has absolutey no tangible impact on the world. So, why argue?

2

Anonymous #3 5w

Like I said 3 times now, you’re asking a loaded question. If you wanna ask a DIFFERENT question you can but let’s wrap up your first question then

1

Anonymous #3 5w

I think it does matter alot, even if it is in the past. we need to understand history as to not repeat it. people just have the blinders on as to why the loss actually happened. as easy as it is to blame the voters, they aren't really the ones to blame.

1

Anonymous ellie 5w

Me and Ellie disagreeing just shows we are independent thinkers

1

Anonymous #3 5w

the circumstances that lead to the votes are the bigger issue no? the votes are just a symptom to the larger issue—which is what ive been trying to get at here this whole time.

1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Genuinely, how is asking about the material benefit of an action loaded? Like, seriously? It’s only loaded if you think I’m waiting for a "wrong" answer. You're also changing your words around; you earlier said I was making assumptions you didn't agree with, not that it’s loaded. I also don’t think my question presupposed anything about democracy. If you don't like my question, rephrase it how you want it and then answer. I can't reach into your brain and pull out the right words

2

Anonymous #3 5w

if you think a single vote has a material impact in a national election you are smoking something. maybe in some counties. but not where we're at in an area that's always heavily blue

1

Anonymous #3 5w

you have to remember that the popular vote does not win elections

1

Anonymous ellie 5w

Why people generally voted the way they did is important. And that should be analyzed. And this thread has not been doing that. The goal of this thread has been to argue. (Also, I’m not sure people have blinders on, per se. I think a lot of people have a lot of different contradictory ideas about why the election ended up the way it did. Figuring out which ideas have more merit can't be done on yy/sidechat, either)

1

Anonymous #3 5w

i definitely do think people have their blinders on. you see a lot of posts absolutely coming after 3rd party voters while ignoring the basic facts of the electoral process, and the material conditions that led to harris' loss.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

now we're seeing inquiries into whether the election was rigged from the start, with statements by Musk alluding to that. not to mention tech companies like Facebook heavily marketing republican content. people are more content to blame the ex coalminers living in rags in shotgun shacks, and steelworkers who have been out of the job for years than the billionaires and politicians and it's just nasty.

1

Anonymous ellie 5w

I actually agreed with you earlier when I said that an individual vote is negligible, so idk why you think I'm "smoking something." There is still a reason I asked landtrust for their opinion. I know perfectly well how much a single vote in a presidential election matters. My point was that this is a huge thread of people attacking each other over something that everyone seems to agree is materially unimportant.

5

Anonymous #3 5w

you have people invalidating queer identities based on votes. and it's really gross. i fucking hate queer republicans. they're still queer tho. that's immutable.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

yeah i'm sorry if you did. i haven't been keeping up with this lately/cant remember whats been said because its alot. and i made my sentiment over the importance of this known. i think we disagree on that point.

1

Anonymous #3 5w

I already answered that question scroll up. Making assumptions in your question is the definition of a loaded question…

1

Anonymous ellie 5w

And the numerous bomb threats sent to primarily democratic voting areas across the US colony…

3

Anonymous #6 5w

and the counties where harris got zero votes which is very improbable

1

Anonymous #3 5w

When someone says “FUCK YOU” to me for voting against genocide, and then calls me selfish for it, how could you expect me NOT to defend myself?

0

Anonymous ellie 5w

Yes, those are perspectives people hold. I also know people who know all of what you said (evidence-wise) and blame other groups and have equally strong evidence for their ideas being the "primary" reasons. And there are still contradictions. All of those ideas are important and should be talked about. And making sure someone voted the "right way" to have that conversation is enormously unhelpful. Which is what this seems to have turned into

4

Anonymous #3 5w

yes which is what i meant by we should focus on the circumstances behind these votes, not the votes themselves.

1

Anonymous landtrust 5w

Everyone makes assumptions when they communicate. I seriously do not know how to rephrase to get you to answer. So if you don’t want to help me out, that’s fine, but I'm not going to waste my time figuring it out. We seem to have very different lingos here that doesn’t seem to be helping

2

Anonymous #3 5w

“Everyone makes assumptions when they communicate” so when you make an assumption that is false and then you ask me a question BASED on that assumption, don’t get mad when I don’t answer your question

1

Anonymous ellie 5w

That is gross that people do that. We might disagree, but I'm not sure? I think it’s not worth it to attack individuals for how they voted (finding ways to cause interospection w/out attacking is good tho). It's more important to understand the broader ideologies & systems that influences how ppl vote, but I also don’t think we'll really know for awhile

2

Anonymous #3 5w

i completely agree with this. i'll still go after people for voting republican, but ultimately, we need to recognize the factors behind the votes. at the end of the day, if we're not rich, we're all victims of capitalism.

3

Anonymous landtrust 5w

So me asking you "hey what material impact does your vote have on other people," because it assumes we live in a democracy (which, btw, is not a necessary assumption for the question? You claim to have voted. I can ask about that?), which you don't agree with, the whole question is unanswerable? But you voted, yes? So what is the point of voting if you think we do not live in a democracy?

1

Anonymous #3 5w

i'm not answering landtrust's question for him here. i think that question of "why vote at all?" is something that a lot of voters are hit with now that they recognize the system is rigged. perhaps it's why many did not turn out to vote. just a thought

2

Anonymous #3 5w

Yes your question was loaded and I already answered why I voted to Jill Stein. If you actually want to know you can scroll up and find it yourself but tbh it seems like you don’t care and just want to argue

0

Anonymous ellie 5w

That’s a great question to ask

0

Anonymous landtrust 5w

My assumption is that you voted. My evidence is that you said you did. If my question presupposes that we live in a democracy bc I asked you a question abt your vote, then voting must be what necessitates the assumption, which means that your claim to have voted also assumes you live in a democracy. I don’t know of any assumption that can apply to my question that does not equally apply to your statement that you voted?

1

Anonymous #3 5w

perhaps some vote just to vote. you're assuming rational choice when we live in an irrational world.

-1

Anonymous #3 5w

or maybe they were voting for state/local measures and said "y'know may as well vote for president even though it'll do nothing here!"

-1

Anonymous ellie 5w

Then that’s an answer! And I would accept that answer! I'd be like baller cool & maybe ask a follow-up if I didn’t understand smth they were saying. I've been laying out what I'm saying as clearly as I can so landtrust can give me an answer I can understand if they want to

2

Anonymous landtrust 5w

You gave a couple of reasons, yes. And of the reasons you gave (except for Palestinians telling you to), they (unfortunately) have not happened. And you have spent a lot of time attacking other people for voting "incorrectly" when they broadly have the same goals as you. It just seems really... off to me to focus on that and not how you can work together to continue to work toward the changes you do agree with? Your vote (and their vote) did not end up fulfilling either of your shared goals

2

Anonymous #3 5w

Like, I would love if we could have a conversation about the tangible things people can help with to prevent trump & ppl like him from happening again. Except when someone on here starts the blame game, people just want to continue the blame game, instead of saying "hey you suck for trying to start the blame game, I want to actually fix these problems." And that’s really not going to get any of us anywhere regardless of how we vote

1

Anonymous #3 5w

People in Gaza told me to so I did. And interestingly, you didn’t answer the question. Are THEY selfish for telling me to vote for Jill?

-3

Anonymous #3 5w

So this all started because Ellie blamed Kamala Harris fully for how the 2024 election went down. And I said no let’s not blame her fully because it was objectively foolish for left leaning voters to sit this one out, essentially giving trump their vote. I admitted the faults in Kamala’s campaign. But they’re not willing to take any responsibility for their decisions which is the issue. You ask for tangible results, and they are as follows: landtrust threw their vote away and wasted it on Jill

4

Anonymous #3 5w

Stein. Assuming landtrust, is left leaning, they would have voted for Kamala but chose not to, which means they gave their vote to trump since they didn’t use their vote to cancel out a trumpies vote. The tangible results: trump is in office, Gaza has been handed over to Israel, the United States is under a fascist regime. Those are the results. Neither are willing to take any responsibility and have instead resorted to strawman arguments. Ellie I am a minority stop trying to pose this scenario

4

Anonymous #2 5w

that we are all attacking minorities for how they voted when you’re the one who started all this. It is objectively foolish and selfish to vote for Jill stein when you knew millions of Americans would be put in danger if you didn’t vote for Kamala. There is no arguing that. My rights are at stake because of people like you (landtrust). Thousands if not millions are suffering and will die because of trump. If yall can’t admit any fault then u need to mature. I can admit Harris’s failures.

4

Anonymous #2 5w

I thought of one last thing: your personal beef with democrats and capitalism doesn’t justify putting millions of Americans at risk to lose their healthcare, endangering immigrants w these no due process concentration camps, defunding of vaccine research, controlling the media, military takeover of DC, mass layoffs and many more. Real lives have been ruined and put at risk because of the outcome of the 2024 election. Having a hand in this in anyway makes you guilty to some degree 🤷‍♀️

2

Anonymous #2 4w

Gaza would have been handed over to Israel regardless, as Harris fully supported the genocide on palestine. It's not "objectively selfish" to vote for a third party candidate in an area where she was already heavily winning. THE POPULAR VOTE DOES NOT WIN ELECTIONS.

-2

Anonymous #2 4w

this issue is systemic and not one caused by the voters. the system is designed to enable this, and the bourgeoisie control the system. what is a single voter going to accomplish here—especially when THE AMOUNT SHE LOST BY WAS STILL MORE THAN THIRD PARTY VOTES COMBINED.

-2

Anonymous #2 4w

real lives were ruined by a system that enables human rights to be overturned. a system that does nothing to protect minorities, and a system that the democrats have had decades to make better, but continually haven't.

-2

Anonymous #2 4w

we have and will continue to hesitantly be handed scraps by those in power, and you wonder why people vote against the established parties or refrain from voting at all.

-2

Anonymous #2 4w

but nope! something goes wrong and it's voters' fault—a voterbase that's made up of people who will be fucked over regardless. huh

-2

Anonymous ellie 4w

It is both 🌈✨ yes. The system sucks. But your one fucking job as a citizen is to vote and let your voice be heard. They had the ability to vote and chose not to and look who’s in office. The democrats are partially to blame. Kamala is partially to blame. And so are people like landtrust. I don’t get why this is so hard for you guys to acknowledge. It’s annoying as fuck. Grow and live in reality

4

Anonymous ellie 4w

landtrust said they are in a swing state, states where trump lost by narrow amounts. This widespread attitude of “im not gonna vote” could’ve caused the election to go the other way had yall not decide to sit this one out. It is objectively selfish to not gaf about the struggles of people here and marginalized groups here. You said it yourself days ago that trump is way worse than Kamala so stop trying to act like they’re on the same wavelength.

3

Anonymous #2 4w

i'm in the same place as landtrust. the county we're in is always blue. always. landtrusts vote did not do anything

-1

Anonymous ellie 4w

ik the blame game isn’t necessarily productive but you started this by fully blaming Kamala. There are so many factors that went into this election, as it’s a complex and extremely deep issue. There are so many factors and people to blame but you acting like it’s 100% Kamala’s fault, “the system’s fault”, etc is objectively wrong. Americans as a whole have a responsibility to educate themselves on the presidential candidates and vote for which one will be more beneficial for Americans (not just

3

Anonymous #2 4w

yes. i will always blame the politicians and the bourgeoise over the proletariat

-1

Anonymous ellie 4w

on one single issue). You guys knew or should have known how dangerous trump would be for everyone, in Palestine and here, and there are huge groups of people who decided not to take action, allowing for trump to get into the Oval Office. So yes that makes you partially to blame. Once again your personal feelings about the “system” doesn’t not excuse the REAL damage that has been done to American citizens.

5

Anonymous #2 4w

you are expecting rational choice. rational choice doesn't exist. steel workers will vote for the promise of manufacturing jobs. coal miners will vote for the promise of the return of industry. not everyone can or will take the time to learn about the candidates. they may however look and see that a party has historically lied to them and then not vote for that party—which has been happening where we're at particularly with the democrats.

0

Anonymous #2 4w

as I've been saying this whole time, the voters at large are not to blame. we should be looking at the conditions behind their votes and how these conditions came to be.

1

Anonymous ellie 4w

Neither you or landtrust seem to care that real lives have been ruined directly cuz of trump that would not have been ruined under Kamala Harris. That’s selfish, privileged, and insensitive. I don’t get why it’s so hard for yall to admit partial responsibility. It’s showing an extreme lack of emotional maturity.

5

Anonymous #2 4w

guess what. real lives will be ruined under all candidates. people will get fucked over regardless. Landtrust's vote did absolutely nothing. the fault lies solely on Donald Trump and within his regime

1

Anonymous #2 4w

a large contingent of those whose lives are being ruined are elderly, farmers, and business people who voted for him.

1

Anonymous #2 4w

I'm not responsible for a system in which my voice has never mattered, and never will. saying otherwise is bullshit.

0

Anonymous ellie 4w

Landtrusts vote did absolutely nothing. AGREED. Cuz the dumbass voted for Jill stein. Once again you’re resorting back to equating trump to Harris. “real lives will be ruined under all candidates” but MORE LIVES will be ruined under trump. Stop acting like they’re the same

5

Anonymous #2 4w

I will protest this system and those who work to uphold it until the day i die—which is my responsibility.

3

Anonymous #2 4w

they are both fucking evil nomatter how you cut it. they are both really fucking bad. all presidents are fucking awful people

2

Anonymous #2 4w

Just wanted to make a correction: I didn’t just vote for Jill Stein, I voted for her in a swing state. When you’re done insulting me, answer the question I asked

-1

Anonymous ellie 4w

Okay so you’re admitting that your stubborn ass isn’t willing to find any middle ground and hear me out? Stop yapping for one second and just answer this. Cuz I will save us both the time and exit this discussion again. The difference between you and I is that I am admitting to admit some truth to your argument, but you’re not even trying to listen or hear me out. You keep disregarding all the damage trump has done as if Harris would be the same. Your all or nothing mentality is not logical.

2

Anonymous #2 4w

we should not have to pick the lesser of two evils every time. it's a manufactured choice by the government, and it's bullshit.

3

Anonymous #2 4w

i'm not arguing in favor of trump. i'm just saying stop blaming the voter. blame his donors, the rich, the corporations, but the average voter is not the one to blame here

3

Anonymous ellie 4w

Who mandates that genocide is a requirement? Who told them this? It’s not true. They just need to have courage to say enough is enough

2

Anonymous #2 4w

Stop complaining and try listening to her

3

Anonymous landtrust 4w

exactly!!! this is why a revolution is sorely needed. otherwise this will happen every single election—and has happened to some extent

0

Anonymous ellie 4w

There are multiple people to blame. I blame the rich for creating this system. I blame the republicans for creating widespread hate. I blame the democrats for losing on purpose. I blame trump supporters for being ignorant. And I blame people like landtrust for not voting. If you took action that has resulted in trump getting into office, you are partially to blame. This is not a black and white issue.

5

Anonymous #2 4w

landtrust did vote though. they just didn't vote for who you wanted them to vote

3

Anonymous landtrust 4w

I already answered your question and I stated that you voted for her in a swing state. Maybe if you actually read my comments you’d know this. Fucking airhead idiot no wonder you voted for Jill stein.

1

Anonymous #2 4w

yes and so can we acknowledge that in a lot of cases the voter has been misled? can we acknowledge the role social media indoctrination has played in this election? can we acknowledge who funded that, and who ultimately has led to this? it's not the voter

0

Anonymous #2 4w

Liar. You failed to answer. So I’ll ask you again. Are the people in Gaza who told me to vote for Jill selfish for that?

-1

Anonymous ellie 4w

The reality is the revolution wasn’t here on 11/4/24 so yall are just living in a fantasy world. And ofc it’s convenient you two always pop up to ride each other whenever I explain things. But genuinely you both need to come back to reality and see things as they actually are. Not voting for Kamala Harris has put millions in danger. Anyone who has anything to do with this is partially to blame. I’m tired of yall not listening to me and talking about scenarios that aren’t rooted in reality

2

Anonymous ellie 4w

At one point a group of democrats at the library tried to pressure me into voting for Kamala. Did it make me want to vote for her? No. It did the opposite. So if people irl can’t pressure me to vote for genocide, idk why #2 thinks hes different?

0

Anonymous #2 4w

this is simply false. she would have still lost. blue areas would just be bluer. she lost by such a high margin here that it would not have made a difference.

0

Anonymous landtrust 4w

They’re not selfish but misguided. Those people didn’t understand how our voting system works, but the American people do. It’s either a democrat or a republican who wins. Basing your entire vote based on what the ppl of Gaza tell you to do is extremely uneducated and ignorant. You are putting ALL Americans in danger over one issue, that has been way worse under trump. Congrats! Your vote was objectively stupid and caused more harm than good.

1

Anonymous #2 4w

so you're just pulling a bernie bro here and calling minorities "uneducated" for not agreeing with you...

-1

Anonymous #2 4w

guess what. the sad reality is Americans are always in danger. this has and will happen every election to some extent. the system is completely fucked.

-1

Anonymous #2 4w

They’re misguided for wanting the genocide of their people to end? How are you so certain you’re not the one who’s misguided?

-1

Anonymous ellie 4w

Ellie no more talking. Hush hush for a second. Answer this. Yes or no. Are you willing to find any middle ground with me? You’re not willing to at least take partial ownership? The voters are slightly to blame. That is an objective truth. Not being formally educated, and voting in a way that has directly caused harm, makes you partially to blame. Can you admit that? Yes or no? Cuz if the answer is no, I won’t waste any more of my time trying to get to you. Seems like your mind is already made

1

Anonymous #2 4w

your western savior complex is showing. you do not know better than they do.

2

Anonymous #2 4w

lmao. so people who can't afford to be educated on this are to blame for being unable to afford said education?

2

Anonymous ellie 4w

Jesus fucking Christ you keep resorting to the exact same shit. All you do is equate Donald trump and Harris by saying “oh we are fucked regardless” then do these invalid arguments tryna paint me as attacking “minorities” when im a fucking minority whose rights are at risk because of this administration. You are insufferable.

2

Anonymous #2 4w

did some voters vote based on bias and bigotry? yes they did. will i say they're to blame for the outcome of this election? no.

0

Anonymous ellie 4w

Answer the question Ellie. I don’t want to hear you speak anymore trust me.

1

Anonymous ellie 4w

as much as I fucking loathe those people, they didn't cause this. there was way more at play here

2

Anonymous #2 4w

Okay. So you’re a minority whose rights are at risk. So why is you being at risk more important than the Palestinian who’s ACTIVELY BEING GENOCIDED? Aren’t you the selfish one?

1

Anonymous landtrust 4w

I’m not misguided because I voted for the candidate who actually had a chance to win, and the candidate who wasn’t going to ruin the lives of millions of Americans. I didn’t base my vote on a single issue. I didn’t waste my vote and gave it to trump unlike you. I actually voted in the interest of all Americans and marginalized groups here. I actually live in reality.

1

Anonymous #2 4w

being a minority and blaming the election loss on minorities is not mutually exclusive. otherwise you wouldn't be in the queer chat blaming "uneducated voters" here for the election loss.

0

Anonymous ellie 4w

Answer the question Ellie.

1

Anonymous #2 4w

Who decided who “actually had a chance to win”?

1

Anonymous #2 4w

i did answer it. your lack of reading comprehension is no fault of mine. don't get snappy with me.

2

Anonymous ellie 4w

Why can’t these DINOs ever do self reflection? It’s always blame others and cry and it’s never accountability

1

Anonymous landtrust 4w

Wow that’s crazy. You went so far left that you actually went right. Do you not care about the minorities here who are at risk of having their rights taken away? I think we all agree either way Palestine is fucked. The US is too close to isreal and both candidates would have been bad for Palestine. So your options were (A) not good for Palestine but won’t take away our rights and ruin our lives or (B) bad for Palestine and will ruin American lives as well. And you chose B.

1

Anonymous #2 4w

so we're just going to turn our back on a genocide and write them off as "fucked"? do you even hear yourself?

2

Anonymous #2 4w

I’m actually fairly moderate. But you dodged the question with a 5 paragraph essay yap fest. So why are YOU more important than people being genocided?

0

Anonymous #2 4w

so you're saying queer rights only matter domestically? we cannot say we fight for queer rights unless we do so everywhere. turning our back on palestine is not the answer

0

Anonymous landtrust 4w

You are communicating to me that you don’t care about the immigrants here who have been shoved into concentration camps and have had their human rights violated. You don’t care about the women here who’s reproductive rights have been taken away. You don’t care about LGBTQ ppl who are being attacked and may lose their right to marry. All cuz of Palestine? That is selfish. My vote did more to help those in Palestine and didn’t put minorities here at risk. Can you say the same? No.

3

Anonymous #2 4w

or C. protest this election between two genocidal candidates by not voting for either.

0

Anonymous #2 4w

Now the DINO is talking about immigrants? 😂 Please stop running it’s not a good look for you

-1

Anonymous ellie 4w

You didn’t answer question. It’s yes or no. Are you willing to find any middle ground? All you do is yap your big fucking mouth off and im done wasting my time on you. Give me a yes or no.

1

Anonymous #2 4w

I already fucking did answer it. if anything this just shows you don't read when i respond to you.

3

Anonymous ellie 4w

Exactly. Who told #2 that there are only 2 choices? I’ll just say it clear since we all know it. It was the media. And we all know the bias the media has

2

Anonymous ellie 4w

No C doesn’t exist. What did “protesting the election” do? Nothing. Trump is in office. Gaza is fucked. Minorities here are fucked. Live in reality Ellie. Everything has gone to shit.

1

Anonymous landtrust 4w

and guess who funds the media. the bourgeoisie who have a vested interest in defending american imperialism and capitalism

1

Anonymous #2 4w

why doesn't it exist? because the liberals tell you as much? because the system does?

1

Anonymous #2 4w

Here’s the truth: you saw 4 or 5 candidates when you were bubbling in your vote. But the media brainwashed you into only seeing 2

0

Anonymous ellie 4w

k im gonna take that as a no. Ellie you’re too bone headed and for both our sakes imma block you. You’re impossible to talk to and concerningly close minded.

2

Anonymous #2 4w

the democrats don't care about minorities either. if you think otherwise, you're playing yourself

1

Anonymous #2 4w

Instead of blocking her, you should try responding to her points

1

Anonymous landtrust 4w

hey its fine with me. i dont have to waste my time here anymore. lol

1

Anonymous ellie 4w

It’s interesting to me how they see clearly how the media brainwashes Trump supporters. But for some reason they think their media doesn’t do the same for them?

0

Anonymous landtrust 4w

i think it's a matter of fundamental attribution error here. they're willing to blame everyone for the circumstances they find themselves in rather than the circumstances themselves. it's the danger of existing in a highly individualist culture. the only one whose not to blame is themself—as the enlightened liberal. they can do no wrong in their eyes—even while saying we should abandon gaza as their lives matter less than ours...

1

Anonymous #2 4w

Cuz I can think of a long list of ways things have gotten worse as a result of you voting for her. But tell me what has your vote truly done? No what if scenarios, no trying to work around the system. We are talking about reality. Factual things that have happened. You can’t. Because guess what? The genocide has only gotten worse under trump and that’s partially due to ppl who voted like you.

3

Anonymous #2 4w

“Either a democrat or a republican will win”? Says who? You saw the other names, you could’ve circled in one of the other names

1

Anonymous #2 4w

And im not saying im more important than people being genocided. Im saying that if one candidate won’t be good for the genocide, and the other candidate won’t be good for the genocide AND minorities here, picking the candidate that will do less damage is the objectively right point to make. But you don’t care about all the harm he’s caused POC, LGBTQ, and women here which is not a good look on you.

3

Anonymous ellie 4w

As much as I love our culture. This is one thing that I really don’t like. We need to function as one people if we want to survive as a nation. The individualism is evil

0

Anonymous landtrust 4w

i'd say at this point reverse the tables and start blaming them for stein's loss. see how they like it lol

3

Anonymous ellie 4w

😂😂good idea

0

Anonymous #2 4w

And telling me I should “try responding to her points” is crazy. This argument has been going on for days. Multiple people have been responding to her points telling her she’s wrong and she doesn’t listen. Instead of acknowledging my points, she just circles back to the same dumb arguments. Im petty as hell and wanna respond to every dumb thing she says but im smart enough to know there’s no point in trying.

4

Anonymous #2 4w

Can you answer the question now

3

Anonymous landtrust 4w

Omg bro how many times do i have to explain this to you? Live in reality. Those are the norms in our country. That’s HOW IT IS. It’s one or the other. That’s why there’s only a democrat and republican debating on tv. That’s just how it is. Only democrats or republicans win states. Stop it the “says who?” Not enough people voted 3rd party in 2024 election so that’s not a valid rebuttal. Answer my question. How has circling one of the other names helped Gaza? Tell me. You keep evading the question

3

Anonymous #2 4w

No. You’ve just repeating yourself “Either a democrat or republican will win” Says who? “These are the norms of our country” Says who? “It’s one or the other” Says who?

0

Anonymous landtrust 4w

There is not one singular person who declares social norms. Idk how much more descriptive I can explain this to you. Stop avoiding my question. How has your vote for Jill stein helped the people of Gaza? Are things going well in Palestine right now with trump in office? Answer my question. I can’t answer yours because you’re refusing to accept the reality of our political system.

4

Anonymous #2 4w

Exactly. So since nobody decides what a social norm is. They aren’t permanent. And therefore you cannot declare “this is how things are”

0

Anonymous landtrust 4w

Why aren’t you answering my question? What has your vote for Jill stein done for the people of Palestine? What results? Have things gotten better in Palestine since trump went into office? Since you care so much about the issue you must know.

3

Anonymous #2 4w

I’m not answering because 1. We haven’t concluded the first thought and 2. Your point is the same that you’ve been making the whole time

3

Anonymous landtrust 4w

Nope. We already talked about your thing. I’m done trying to explain it to you. Answer my question right now. How has your vote for Jill stein helped the people of Gaza? Let’s talk about the REALITY of the situation we are in. Are things better in Gaza as a result of your vote? How are things going there under trump? Tell me now. How has your vote helped Palestine?

1

Anonymous #2 4w

No, you just repeated yourself. Finally we could get to the bottom of it (although im betting this is as deep as it goes which is why you refuse to go deeper) but you want to waste time talking about Trump

1

Anonymous #2 4w

The truth is that you could’ve circled a third party name like me. But you chose not to. So how can anyone say that “there are only 2 parties”?

1

Anonymous landtrust 4w

I’ve already answered your question but you’re refusing to accept the reality of our current political system. There’s no point in engaging in your conversation. So once again. Answer mine. What has your vote done to help the people of Gaza? Give me a tangible thing that proves to me that your vote actually helped them and made the world a better. Do you have an answer? I’ll ask you one more time. I don’t think you have an answer cuz u know u fucked up.

2

Anonymous landtrust 4w

We’re not talking about that. We are talking about my thing. I am going to boldly say you don’t have any answer or proof to justify your vote for Jill stein. You don’t have an answer because your vote was given to trump, and as a result of trump being in office, the people in Palestine are even more fucked than they were under Biden. Can you refute this? Can you tell me how your vote for Jill stein has helped Gaza? I don’t think so!

2

Anonymous #2 4w

No. You haven’t answered my question. I’ve looked and you just do circular logic. If Jill Stein had won, a lot would’ve been different for Gaza. But DINOs like you sabotaged her win.

1

Anonymous landtrust 4w

One last time. Answer my question. What has your vote for Jill stein done to help the people of Gaza? Answer the question. Live in reality. What good has your vote done? You’re not answering because you don’t have an answer. Answering my question would be admitting that you’re wrong in all of this. I’ve explained to you twice now the answer of your question. So no. It’s your turn to answer me. I’ll ask one more time. This is your last chance.

2

Anonymous #2 4w

I already told you. Had she won, a lot. But it’s your fault she lost You’re the one running right now by refusing to admit that she could’ve won. But it’s your fault she lost and you don’t know how to take accountability. It’s like a child blaming everyone but themselves

1

Anonymous landtrust 4w

“If Jill stein won” is a hypothetical situation. It’s not reality. Because the reality of the situation is is that Jill stein had ZERO chance of winning. She ran in 2016, 2020, and 2024 and lost all 3 times. Not enough people vote third party. They didn’t win a single state. The majority of Americans either vote democrat or republican so realistically and logically speaking those are the only two options you have. Because voting third party is throwing your vote away. Everyone knows this.

2

Anonymous #2 4w

Okay. So using your own logic, what did your vote for Kamala do for women or lgbt? She lost too. Voting third party is throwing your vote says? Says who?

1

Anonymous landtrust 4w

It’s a non negotiable. So here’s your answer: you voted for Jill stein and nothing came out of it because she lost. Your vote was thrown away to a third party candidate. She don’t even get a million votes. She had ZERO chance of winning. Your vote could’ve gone to the lesser of 2 evils (Kamala) but instead you wasted it on Jill stein, now trump’s in office, and the people of Gaza are fucked.

0

Anonymous landtrust 4w

If she couldn’t even get a million votes, she had no chance of winning. Now the tangible results are things are worse off in Gaza and way worse here as a result of your vote. Okay? Are we done here? I’m done explaining 6th grade concepts to you.

1

Anonymous landtrust 4w

At least my vote canceled out a maga vote. At least im voting for the party that defends lgbtq and women’s rights. You just threw yours away. And it’s says me. It’s says every American on the fucking planet. Voting third party does nothing. It makes no difference. Everyone knows this it’s common knowledge.

1

Anonymous #2 4w

“She had zero chance of winning” Says who? You can’t answer this because you made it up. Your vote didn’t matter either cause your candidate lost. And it’s your fault Jill lost cause you’re too scared to vote against genocide

0

Anonymous #2 4w

It’s actually not “common knowledge” it’s something the media told you and you believed for some strange reason. You know that the media brainwashed Trump supporters but for some reason you don’t think they brainwash you too?

1

Anonymous landtrust 4w

“Says who?” Bitch says me. I’ve already explained this to you. You don’t live in reality. She had zero chance of winning because she couldn’t even garner a million votes despite being in the political game for 8 years. If it’s my fault that Jill stein lost then it’s also the fault of 150+ million Americans who also didn’t vote for her. My candidate lost but at least I did what was right. At least I took actions to make things better everywhere. You didn’t.

1

Anonymous landtrust 4w

Have fun with ellie in block city.

2

Anonymous #2 4w

Genocider. Thats circular reasoning, only a dem or republican will win bc thats who people vote for. If genocide was a red line for everyone, then a genocidal candidate could not win

4

Anonymous #7 4w

ughh oh my god I’ve already wasted enough of my time arguing with the other two clowns now a new one has spawned.. Number 1, you just blankly calling everyone a genocider is so fucking immature and wrong. You cannot force everyone to see the issue the same as you. Don’t attack my character. Both candidates are “genociders” in your eyes. It is impossible to convince the entire country to simply not vote for both democrats and republicans. Base your solutions in reality.

1

Anonymous #7 4w

It is not logical or reasonable to call everyone who voted in the 2024 election a genocider, nor is it possible for a candidate who wasn’t democrat or republican to win. Palestine isn’t the only issue on the planet nor are they the only group of people suffering. You guys are so zoned into this ONE issue that you refuse to see the bigger picture, you refuse to see reality, and you don’t care about the suffering or danger of anyone else. It’s not logical. Nor is it fixing anything.

1

Anonymous #7 4w

Plainly calling people who don’t see this issue the same way you do a ‘genocider’ is exactly why people are fed up with leftists. Yall expect perfection, look down on everyone, attack other’s characters while do absolutely nothing to make change. Not in the mood to listen to enough pretentious selfish asshole chew me out so consider yourself blocked too.

1