Anonymous og_beer 4w

while I agree that your environment has a huge influence on your kinks or other preferences, there definitely are elements of pure luck involved too. Saying it’s entirely exposure sounds a little too similar to arguments homophobic and transphobic people make about gay or trans people “brainwashing” kids into being gay or trans

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Anonymous #4 4w

That would also imply being gay is a kink and not a sexual orientation. While ofc exposure isn’t the *only* thing that leads to kinks and fetishes developing, it’s just the best answer we have with research that’s been conducted (and based on our definitions of fetishes/kinks/philias etc)

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Anonymous #5 4w

why are kinksters so allergic to critical thinking bro are your politics that weak 😭

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Anonymous #2 4w

because it’s literally not affecting anybody but me and the people i have sex with. the whole thing that fighting for gay rights was about; a practice that doesn’t fucking affect you

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Anonymous #5 4w

jesus h christ

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Anonymous #2 4w

no amount of critical thinking can make me despise someone because of what gets them off. if it’s consensual and not hurting anybody, i can’t give any less of a shit and you shouldn’t either. there are no societal implications that real rape or incest is okay because some people roleplay it in bed with their consenting partner. get a job or a hobby or a fucking picket sign and protest something important like gay and trans erasure rather than kinks.

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Anonymous #5 4w

Tbf, the OOP here was talking about actual incest not rp. Roleplay stuff is fine between consenting adults and I don’t care at all. But actually doing those things and saying it’s ok bc it’s your fetish and fetishes are morally neutral and if you say otherwise you’re just the sex thought police is INSANE

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Anonymous #5 4w

OOOP? I guess? Idk last night had too many incest is ok stuff

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

i know what the OOP was talking about, and i agree with their original sentiment. i don’t agree with this whole “anti-every-kink” spin that the rest of this abhorrent community has taken with it

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Anonymous #5 4w

I’m down with you there. But the original person who started this was shaming us for “not allowing queer spaces to be a safe space for incest” and “we’re just being transphobic bc a transwoman is having a kink” and “we should be ashamed for not supporting our community” Which uh. No fam. It is not a safe space for that please stop trying to have sex with your relatives and throwing in 3 strawman arguments to justify it. Nastiness I pray to god was a troll and I’m just stupid and fell for bait

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

100% agree. honestly i didn’t even know about WhatsHerFace’s browser history until this deeper dive. I don’t think genuine real incest is okay. At the same time however, why does it seem like we ALWAYS have to talk about it when a queer person does some fuck shit when there’s always a cishet person doing some fuck shit that goes unheard of.

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Anonymous #5 4w

Honestly I think it’s bc kink is deeply intertwined with queer culture. Not many vanilla queers out there, ig we decided if society was gonna call us sexual deviants we might as well actually be and have some fun sex

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

i know plenty of vanilla queers. regardless of your stance on the ethics of kinks i strongly oppose the idea that queers are all hypersexual and/or into highly questionable kinks.

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there is not a justifiable argument against the consensual private actions between adults in a controlled environment.

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

Genuinely curious. Even if OOP was talking about actual gay incest, what’s so morally wrong about it? Who does it hurt? (Assuming that it doesn’t involve grooming, because child abuse is whole different matter)

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if it’s a question of ethics, what we “should do” than i think we should mind our fucking business

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except you DIDNT say “rape and children” you said roleplay… you don’t have to find it anything if it’s not your kink, but it’s not your place to judge anyone for their sexual preferences in that way, whether you agree with them or not

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nobody is trying to press it to be the norm

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Anonymous #7 4w

because all real incest relationships stem from a prior familial relationship, which by default has inherent power dynamics that makes all real incest grooming no matter age or intention

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Anonymous #5 4w

How about brothers close in age? Twins? Also, maybe some people enjoying having some power dynamic (like dom-sub)

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Anonymous #7 4w

Bro not twincest that’s the fucking worst

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

Can you explain to me why logically? I’m just trying to understand

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Anonymous #7 4w

Sexualizing people for their state of existence is GROSS. It’s also incredibly reductive in that it dehumanizes each of the twin siblings. They’re no longer individual people, capable of their own thoughts, opinions, different personalities, BEING different people. They’re being reduced to a unit of twins, and their existence is only to fulfill your sexual fantasy of having sex, in the case of indentical twins sex with two of the same person (despite them very much not being the same person)

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

I’m not talking about other people fetishizing twins (I’m a twin myself). I’m saying if two brothers (twins or now, but twins don’t have a power imbalance) decide to engage in intimate activities with each other, it doesn’t hurt anyone. It’s not something I’d ever do myself, but I wouldn’t judge people who do decide to do things with related individuals

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

Straight people (or anyone who plans to reproduce biologically) have a moral obligation to avoid incest because that produces babies with genetic defects, who would grow up miserable. But if there is no reproduction involved, I don’t see why there would still be a moral issue

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

Are we really thinking about this issue critically, or are we not digging deeper beyond the instinct of it being gross/the societal conditioning that it’s taboo? Being gay used to be considered gross, sinful, and taboo (and some still think so). But when people make the argument that what two consenting adults do in their own time is not harmful to anyway, it becomes clear to logical individuals that the wrongness argument falls apart.

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Anonymous #7 4w

So I’m genuinely trying to understand why that doesn’t apply here as well

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Anonymous #7 4w

Bc you need to examine the conditioning of why they want to have sex with each other. What happened in their lives (most likely sexual abuse from an older trusted adult in their family) that made them believe sex with family wasn’t just an option, but the most appealing one? Not to mention theres evidence the biological drives of fornication (and the partners we deem fit) still exist in queer people. We still find people more genetically different to us more desirable partners on a physiological

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

Not necessarily. In an episode of a show, the bride mysteriously commies suicide the day before the wedding. It was later revealed she found out that day that she and the groom are actually twins separated at birth, so she could never be with her true love. Watching that, I thought as long as they don’t reproduce, that shouldn’t be an issue. Obviously, that’s fictional. But I’m just saying that having sex with related individuals isn’t inherently bad, as long as no reproduction is involved

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

Also, even if we go along with the sexual abuse argument, that is still only saying that abuse is bad, not the act of incest per se. We shouldn’t fault the victims for having those unconventional but still benign tendencies

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Anonymous #7 4w

Yes, you should be able to fuck your brother because a fictional show said so and bc we have vastly different concepts of benign. The only thing that matters is the genetic makeup of offspring produced from sex and no other reasons we shouldn’t fuck our siblings. But you enjoy. Keep comparing incest to being gay also, by the way. Really makes you a winner here in lgbtq spaces and not a weird twat in the slightest

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

If you read carefully the fictional show didn’t say you should. In fact, the character killed herself because she thought it’s too taboo.

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

No need to resort to being uncivil, Mr/Ms. Beer. I understand that humans are biologically programmed to feel repulsed by incest, though obviously to different extent among individuals. I urge you to look past your instinctual disgust and give me a real, logical reason why consensual incest with no abuse involved is morally wrong

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Anonymous #7 4w

And you’re saying since that (fictionalized dramatic extreme) happened we have made it into too much of a taboo and should socially allow it instead. God and people make fun of me for being libertarian 😭

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Anonymous #7 4w

Ok, then show me one (nonfiction) case of consensual known cases of incest that had no abuse involved so that I may find it morally ok, for some reason

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

Not at all. While it is a societal taboo, I just mentioned that it is also programmed into biology (but so is straight sex for most people). I’m askimg that, for individuals who don’t feel the repulsion, why is it still morally wrong?

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

Does that matter? You sound like those who say that communism will never work because we don’t have a working example yet. An idea doesn’t need a real life example to stand. Philosophy is all about hypotheticals

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Anonymous #7 4w

For one thing, it disrupts crucial family roles and dynamics that are heavily involved in psychological wellbeing. I’m a fan of moral relativism, trust me I am, but that context exists bc morals aren’t formed in a vacuum. Something happened to reshape those morals away from social norms, which considered incest is universally deemed morally disgusting across large cultural groups, I’d say there’s a really fucking good reason for it

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Anonymous #7 4w

And yes, it does matter. In a theoretical space sure, it would be fine. But since that has a statistical probability of never happening, I will never base my thinking that way. I will base my thinking off the statistical truth, it cannot happen in an ethical manor, therefor I will not find it, or people who support it, ethical people.

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

I just gave you an example of a couple who didn’t know they’re related. Is that still bad? (Provided that they don’t reproduce.) I mean, Iceland’s population is so small that they have a government dating app helps you check if you’re related to someone. But if it’s two gay strangers who would never have a baby together, what’s the harm if they are related?

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

Also, you think incest is bad because it disrupts family dynamics, not because it has biological consequences for the offspring?

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Anonymous #7 4w

Fine let’s get really philosophical. What really is incest? Simply sex with someone genetically related to you, or sex with someone in which you shared an upbringing with? Why do we consider step-family relationships incest as a society? Why do we enjoy risky behaviors and engaging in social taboos? If you want to be philosophical to distract from reality we can do that all day. But it doesn’t make the reality of what you’re arguing for any less REALISTICALLY immoral

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

That hasn’t answered any question. Also, the brain categorizes things in a “fuzzy” manner (is a squid a fish? Many would say so, but they are more distantly related to, say, a salmon than humans are), so it’s not surprising that people call step-relations incest as well. For the purpose of argument, we can agree that it includes both 1) legal definition of being related and 2) biological definition of being related. Now that’s out of the way, would you like to supply a reason for why it’s bad?

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

We can all agree that torture is universally wrong because it inflicts unsolicited pain on someone. Would you like to give me an argument like this for incest? I mean, I genuinely don’t understand, and it’s not constructive to get defensive about it

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Not always? kinks come in a wide variety of forms. Absolutely no one is using petplay as an analog for beastiality, and I can’t think of any other “real” kink to associate with it. Same with people into being tied up or tying others up, it’s not anything close to wanting to be kidnapped or anything, the vast majority are only interested in a consensual interaction.

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Anonymous og_beer 4w

My dear beer, where did you go? I was greatly enjoying our discussion!

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