Anonymous #1 12w

Morals don’t change when you drink. If you do something horrible under the influence, it just means you always were capable, and substance just gave you the courage to do it.

46

Anonymous #8 12w

Well you crash the car because your senses and reflexes are altered, not typically because you’re intending to crash a car lol. If you like beat somebody up or scream at someone though that kinda says more about your character because you’re still choosing to do that, even if your decision making is impaired it’s still there. Obviously some things are worse than others.

6

Anonymous OP 12w

This feels so puritan. Everyone is capable of bad things. Intrusive thoughts for example: Everyone experiences them but it’s inhibition and higher level thinking that separates morbid/intrusive thoughts from your moral identity that you actively hold together with your actions and way of viewing yourself. Drugs heavily influence impulse control, emotion, thought, perception, logical thinking, and so much more

45

Anonymous OP 12w

To say that someone’s actions while high or drunk out of their mind are actually just who they really are is flat out ridiculous and harmful. Does it mean people should be excused of their actions while under the influence? No of course not. But it deserves a different kind of consideration than if they had been sober and in their right mind

41

Anonymous #2 12w

When a guy eats another guy’s face off because he was blasted off bath salts and PCP, we don’t say to ourselves “deep down he was really just a face eater and a horrible person”. We say “that guy was fucking blasted off bath salts and PCP”. Now if someone has 3 drinks and turns into a raging asshole or rapist, then you can assume that there’s enough of their real self making those choices since they’re not that relatively fucked up yet. This is the nuance i was talking about

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Anonymous #3 12w

I would say the impaired reflexes and motor skills are equivalent to the impaired inhibitions.

4

Anonymous #2 12w

There’s a HUGE difference between being inebriated and drug-induced psychosis.

23

Anonymous #8 12w

See this is where we disagree. Impaired reflexes are inevitable when drinking. Behavior doesn’t fall under this category. You can still decide not to 🍇 someone even though you’re drunk.

-1

Anonymous #7 12w

I think your reasoning is black and white, given that you make an exception for SA. Why is that the only standard that should be held in terms of accountability?

-2

Anonymous OP 12w

Yeah that’s fair.

5

Anonymous #2 12w

It’s black and white because at the end of the day, your actions define you. The excuse of “I was just drunk” is a cop-out to accountability.

-9

You are literally just moving the goal posts now. Your post said under the influence of drugs or alcohol and that example absolutely falls under that. There’s TONS of mindstates to varying degrees of impairment beyond drug induced psychosis that can completely warp your behavior. If u can’t make an argument without assuming things and making personal attacks on my character to discredit what i’m saying then its a bad argument and makes it look like you’re trying to come off as morally superior

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Anonymous OP 12w

Its not an excuse??? Nowhere did i say that people should be exempt of having to take accountability. I’m saying its a weighted factor in how you should consider the situation

17

Anonymous #4 12w

I can get behind this to a certain extent.

3

If you judge everyone with black and white thinking with zero room for deeper or critical thought then i don’t want to be whatever you are. I’d even argue its less moral to do that but whatever

37

I made a completely neutral comment challenging this opinion in a normal way, i only got annoyed at how self righteous you are. Assume what you want

35

So anyone who disagrees with you is a horrible person or is guilty of something

21

Anonymous #2 12w

I’m not saying that, I’m just saying I assume you’re guilty of something, given your defensiveness.

-23

Anonymous OP 12w

Ok

23

Anonymous #2 12w

It’s kinda like when some men get super defensive when women are critical of men as a whole, saying “not all men, though.” If I’m not talking about you, then you have no need to be defensive. See what I’m getting at here?

-20

Anonymous OP 12w

It’s not so much being defensive as it is pointing out that its a flawed concept and not at all representative of how drugs and mind altering substances can actually affect the brain and behavior. We’re in agreement that if someone is a normal amount of drunk and does something fucked up then its probably not that far off from their sober self. We’re even in agreement that if someone is black out drunk they should still be held accountable because a person needs to control their own drinking

31

Anonymous OP 12w

I just take issue with the idea that someone’s actions while extremely influenced by drugs or alcohol, whether it be long term addiction or taking way too much, or being on something like PCP or meth, is a 1:1 reflection of their true moral self. That is almost scientifically just not true and its harmful to the stigma against addicts and people who have struggled with substance abuse

26

Anonymous OP 12w

it's a little funny how telling the ad hominems are. like you just have no interest in actually engaging meaningfully in this discourse??

26

Anonymous #2 12w

*harmful and adds to the stigma*

22

Anonymous #10 12w

I’m a recovered addict/alcoholic. And in all my meetings, I can say with full certainty that a lot of others are just terrible people that HAD to stop because they kept doing horrible things.

-18

Anonymous OP 12w

AA/NA is super adamant about no judgement. Which is great, because it allows addicts to recover and come to terms with their disease. But at the same time, it doesn’t mean they’re all good people, just because they got sober.

-15

Anonymous OP 12w

Did the addiction beget the terrible morals or did the terrible morals beget the addiction? I think its the former. Once again nothing excuses their actions but i’d imagine a good amount of them could be very different people while consistently sober, which is the case for a lot of recovering addicts

23

Anonymous #2 12w

I still think bad people use it as an excuse.

-14

Anonymous OP 12w

A bag of socks has a deeper understanding of arguments that you 😭 “you exposing my statement as an generalization that’s not always true so you must be a bad person” your minds so made up u ain’t even trying to counter the valid points made against you. You just turned straight to insulting. And your insults don’t even make sense

25

Anonymous OP 12w

OP you’re a fucking dumbass bruh

29

They’re not coming off as defensive at all, what’re you on?

21

Anonymous OP 12w

When someone consistently tries to dodge accountability by blaming their actions on being under the influence then yeah i agree they’re probably not a great person. I don’t doubt that you heard a lot of intense things at those meetings & probably saw firsthand people trying to excuse terrible behaviors while drunk so I can see why that would give you this impression. Im not trying to argue in bad faith, i just think we disagree. Congratulations on recovering & getting sober, i know thats hard

23

Anonymous mother_russia 12w

Huge reason why I think anyone who has committed serious crimes (like violent crimes) while drunk or otherwise intoxicated shouldn’t be allowed to buy alcohol or drink.

3

Anonymous mother_russia 12w

The reason I’m unsure about drugs is because that’s a wide category that I don’t have experience with, I know many can cause hallucinations or psychosis or intense anxiety/fear responses so I don’t think those actions are truly a reflection of a person’s desires

3

Anonymous #2 12w

i experience horrific intrusive thoughts and am mentally ill but i have never acted on them or verbalised them while intoxicated, even when black out level drunk. if you cannot control yourself under the influence then it’s your responsibility to avoid those substances or at least limit your consumption

11

Anonymous #23 12w

I think op doesn’t mean it like that. Like sleeping with someone while drunk means you were horny (or pressured into it/unconscious) but not that you wanted to sleep with that specific person. Lowering inhibitions means less likely to control impulses and horny impulses are a thing but not a bad one. If you’re having impulses like hitting people or just going to drive home completely drunk type stuff, not a good person. At least that what I think op means

4

Anonymous #23 12w

the drunk part is making them horny, and when your body produces those hormones, it becomes more about the action than the person. the alcohol stopped them from using looks as a barrier so they acted upon just the horny aspect. drunk you is your true desires/instincts coming out without the shameful barrier that ur social mask carries. it’s why people should be conscious of how they are when under the influence and exercise self control n

2

Anonymous #20 12w

See this is exactly my point. Just because you’re under the influence and do shitty things does not justify said shitty things. If you have set-in-stone morals, they will not change, regardless of how drunk you are. Incredible how opposed some people are to the precedent.

1

Anonymous OP 12w

a lot of the anger u fortunately comes from the normalization of alcoholism in our society. you are almost expected to consume alcohol starting as a teen and continuing through life, so being confronted with the idea that it could be a problem or that you shouldn’t drink/restrict drinking feels wrong to them. while i disagree w the blanket statement that if you do bad things while drunk ur auto a bad person, i will say if you consistently do bad things while drunk and keep drinking, then ur a-

1

Anonymous #20 12w

bad person, at least at this point in time. everyone makes bad choices of varying levels and they (mostly) don’t make you a bad person. everyone fucks up. but repeated harmful behaviour is a choice as you are choosing to ignore the factors (in this case drinking) that cause you to do bad things instead of acknowledging and working to fix it.

2

Anonymous OP 12w

It’s rlly not. Worst thing I ever did while drunk/high was telling my gf I loved her before we were dating. However, I still think there’s a nuance to reviewing peoples actions when they were intoxicated. #2 had some very good points

2

Anonymous OP 12w

The idea that if someone disagrees with you they therefore must be someone who HAS to be defensive because they participate in what you’re arguing against is so distastefully ignorant lmao. I’ve never touched a bottle of alcohol in my whole life and yet I already know enough to know just how wrong you are.

4

Alcohol is absolutely a drug but since it’s got its own label and widely known affects I’m just calling it alcohol instead of lumping it in with all drugs since “drugs” is way too wide of a category to try and pin any one point down.

7