Anonymous #3 4w

If you have specific questions I would be happy to talk with you.

4

Anonymous #2 4w

Source:trust me bro

2

Anonymous #4 4w

Source for the worlds smartest man claim, though note “smartest” is being qualified as highest measured IQ. https://aleteia.org/2025/07/05/heres-what-man-with-worlds-highest-iq-has-to-say-about-god/

4

Anonymous #4 4w

And here’s an opinion article from a reputable source which links to a primary source for his first claim, though the link doesn’t work so believe it as you will. https://scottmsullivan.com/out-of-the-top-10-most-intelligent-people-in-the-world-at-least-8-think-god-exists-and-6-are-believing-christians/

3

Anonymous #3 4w

I believe the basic lesson here is “source: google it.”

-2

Anonymous #3 4w

You’re proving my point though- a leap of “faith” is not intelligence, it’s illogical belief.

1

Anonymous #1 4w

I feel like you just can’t fathom that the earth was created by a cloud of dust/gas and with gravity, with small particles, eventually built itself into a sphere. Is that not unlike human conception? Small particles becoming something larger?

3

Anonymous OP 4w

I haven’t proven your point, you’ve missed mine. The exact same leap of faith is required for you to believe that anything really exists, or that the universe is fundamentally intelligible at all, it’s more a philosophical question than a practical one but it is an assumption we all make. Also intelligence is the capacity to make connections and follow reasoning, not a guarantee that you will be correct. Intelligent people quite often hold illogical beliefs.

4

Anonymous #3 4w

Human beings are more complex than “you hold a correct belief therefore you’re intelligent.” Or “you’re wrong, therefore unintelligent.” For example, we both think Islam is an incorrect belief system, but I still believe there are smart Muslims, lots of them.

4

Anonymous #3 4w

That’s a lot of a fluff for saying you don’t believe in science.

-2

Anonymous OP 4w

I don’t recall saying anything of the sort. If I did I must have a split personality going on because I do believe in science completely. The conflict between science and religion is an invention of primarily French revolution era propaganda. But please, enlighten me (if you’ll pardon the pun.) how don’t I believe in science?

7

Anonymous #3 4w

Depends on what religion you subscribe to. I’d be happy to give examples, if you tell me.

-2

Anonymous OP 4w

I’m Catholic.

5

Anonymous #3 4w

Alright- you believe that a man walked across water, raised the dead, turned water into wine, and healed the sick with nothing other than a “blessing.” This is, and I’m sorry to be blunt, stupid to believe in.

-4

Anonymous OP 4w

Yes I believe God is capable of intervening and causing impossible things to happen, that’s what a miracle is. That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in science, which is the study of the order in the natural world, it simply means I believe in a supernatural order as well. The whole reason God did the whole “signs and wonders.” Thing was to prove to the people watching who he was, by doing things they knew to be impossible.

7

Anonymous #3 4w

Convenient that we have no verifiable evidence of the supernatural world.

-3

Anonymous #3 4w

And if you’re going to say “but there’s no proof.” There is. We have direct physical evidence of many miracles, The Church has a whole thing about it actually. Everything from photos and X-rays of healings to direct objects that, despite years of study, have proved impossible to replicate even with modern technology.

3

Anonymous #3 4w

Then provide the proof, and I’ll tell you how it either isn’t actual evidence, or how it’s discredited.

-1

Anonymous OP 4w

See! I knew you were going to say that. I suppose I must be supernatural too, or you’re just repeating the same arguments a lot of people do. However your point is an interesting one, the key is to look for verified evidence. But for evidence to be verified it has to be testable, predictable and repeatable. In other words it has to be natural. But question, how did the miracle of the sun predict the exact date the pope would be shot? Decades before he was.

3

Anonymous #3 4w

What?

-1

Anonymous OP 4w

You didn’t provide examples, you just said some nonsense about the sun predicting the pope would be shot? The fuck are you stalking about?

-1

Anonymous OP 4w

I thought you were going to debunk me. The miracle of the sun, look it up. And before you say “mass hallucinations.” Those have zero scientific basis whatsoever.

3

Anonymous #3 4w

And before you say anything, yes the swirly picture which comes up is an artistic representation.

1

Anonymous #3 4w

Lol you’re defending your “evidence” before I even responded. No, this is not evidence of a miracle. This “miracle” can be debunked by cloud iridescence, ice crystal refraction, or sundogs. What I’m asking for is DATA of a miracle. Not anecdote.

-1

Anonymous OP 4w

There’s also the stigmata of Padre Pio, literally crucifixion marks that appeared on his hands and were photographed many times. They were examined by medical experts, especially atheists, who found no medical explanation.

1

Anonymous #3 4w

Literally the only medical examination I could find a record of, was by a Bishop. Bishop Rossi. This is not evidence- in fact, it makes your claim look much less credible.

0

Anonymous OP 4w

I have a question, what do you mean by data? You don’t mean the physical marks that happened after the fact so presume you mean something like water turning to blood in a lab in front of scientists with their equipment on and running yes?

1

Anonymous #3 4w

I’m asking, what scientific data do have to back up your claims of a miracle? I know you don’t have it, because “miracles” have either been completely fabricated, or are simply lacking the data for an explanation.

0

Anonymous #3 4w

Also, you’re not addressing my arguments, you’re dodging.

1

Anonymous OP 4w

Alright. You’re point about various atmospheric phenomena doesn’t account for the reported motion of the sun, nor how three uneducated children were able to predict a rare event, nor how ice crystals managed to predict the future. And even a simple google search will show records of the medical examinations, ranging from inexplicable to attempted debunking. So your point about the bishop being the only one to examine them is just wrong.

1

Anonymous OP 4w

And I’m asking honestly, what kind of data are you looking for? A miracle probably hasn’t occurred in lab conditions, so I can’t give you that. But there have been many examples of documented medical miracles.

1

Anonymous OP 4w

But if you are right in a sense, you won’t get empirical proof of a miracle. Because they are not repeatable, you can’t study them like natural phenomena. But there are enough examples of them occurring that they point to the existence of something.

1

Anonymous #3 4w

I’m sorry, but literally everything you’re telling me is not evidence of the supernatural- again, it’s all anecdotal, with the notion that I should just trust or believe in it because someone told me to. There’s no point in arguing with people like you, because you’re clouded by your faith. As an agnostic, I don’t believe things based on faith- I believe them based on evidence. And you’ve failed to provide any.

1

Anonymous #3 4w

I don’t think you’re gonna get to this person unfortunately, I agree tho even from a different religion

3

Anonymous #6 4w

If it works for you, that’s great. I still think the Catholic Church as an institution is evil/has caused irreparable harm to the world.

1

Anonymous OP 4w

Oh sick, I just wanted to kinda dissuade the notion that I put up a religious front for the preservation of my own image, because to be honest it’s probably the opposite for me and people tend to be surprised I’m as religious as I am. I agree that the Catholic Church has done incredibly bad things, although I think the good that organized religion (including Catholicism) does for a community tends to be understated.

3

Anonymous #6 4w

See, people like you are the exception. I will always respect your *personal* faith, as long as it doesn’t hurt others.

1

Anonymous OP 4w

Fire

1

Anonymous #6 4w

That said, I do disagree with you concerning organized religion. Any organized morality will attract predators.

1

Anonymous OP 4w

I’m not sure if that’s universally true or if organized religion has simply had incredibly poor oversight. I’m not sure I’m qualified to weigh that great evil against some of the great good that churches can do, but I am for now unconvinced that the only solution to that problem is the complete dissolution of organized morality entirely.

0

Anonymous OP 4w

And yes, a series of anecdotal claims can present data for rational belief, but I wasn’t even presenting purely anecdotal claims. There were numerous witnesses to these events, but they actually did have a material effect on the world beyond what the witness could have predicted. But I have a question, are only claims with empirical data valid, as in there can be no truth outside data?

1