Anonymous #2 4d

Well allegedly

12

Anonymous #1 4d

So it’s ok if I conquer and settle your house then

37

Anonymous #7 4d

Assuming your strong enough to beat him

11

Anonymous #2 4d

So it’s ok to do bad things to other people as long as you’re strong enough to do it?

25

Anonymous #7 4d

If the person can’t manage their house and is fighting the other people in the house then it would be the right call to take over the house cause they can’t clearly

-2

Anonymous #2 4d

No, lol

11

Anonymous #7 4d

I would. Especially if it’s a house that I really want and I know that the people in it are currently fighting with eachother and can’t manage it properly.

-2

Anonymous #2 4d

You don’t get to just take things from people, no matter the justification you feel you have

24

Anonymous #7 4d

But I want to. And people all across the world take things for their own benefit and even tho it looks bad it will be for the betterment of humanity.

-5

Anonymous #2 4d

That’s called greed and theft.

11

Anonymous #7 4d

Greed? But we have alot of people to house that need to house that, again, isn’t being properly used by the current tenants. They even signed a paper that let me take part of it. To bad they didn’t read the fine print

-4

Anonymous #2 4d

(I hate this analogy lmao) I believe we would not be where we are as humanity without taking the land from the natives who were already fighting with eachother

-4

Anonymous #2 4d

And this isn’t even the first time, look at Europe and how a nation would take over another

-4

Anonymous #2 4d

We would’ve been in a better place if we followed the two-row wampum belt treaty that the settlers agreed to but didn’t honor. That was the agreement made with tribes in the east coast that we would all live here in our own parallel societies. We lost so much by destroying them. They had so much knowledge that took them tens of thousands of years of trial and error to formulate. We didn’t have to steal anything

21

Anonymous #2 4d

And a large part of why they were fighting was because of the turmoil brought by the settlers pushing them out. One tribe gets pushed out, encroaches on another tribes territory out of necessity, causes territorial disputes

19

Anonymous #2 4d

I think any nation taking over another’s land is wrong. Just because it’s history and precedents doesn’t make it right. We have a long way to go as a species

12

Anonymous #7 4d

Precedented*

7

Anonymous #7 4d

What of that knowledge would be useful if it wasn’t able to be used to have them win against the settlers? I think it’s ultimately just a skill issue tbh and all of history across the world has just been people taking things from people. Only the strongest of ideals and people survive in the end

-2

Anonymous #7 4d

I think it’s wrong unless it’s a necessity. There had to be westward expansion so that the cultures of Europe could expand during the time. If no nation ever took any land then the map would not look like what it is today and we prob wouldn’t be talking on here

-5

Anonymous #2 4d

Knowledge of how to actually manage the land that we live on. Why do you think we have so many insane wildfires? They learned how to manage fuel loads with selective burning. The LA fires wouldn’t have been anywhere near as destructive if we had their knowledge of how to manage the land

9

Anonymous #7 4d

But it most definitely would be outdated by nowadays. Science changed drastically since then

-2

Anonymous #2 4d

If a butterfly flapped its wings 1000 years ago we also wouldn’t be here. If the holocaust were prevented we wouldn’t be here. I’m sorry but that’s kind of a meaningless statement

12

Anonymous #7 4d

In a sense but more on technology side. Like Europe brought a lot of different science breakthroughs that the natives would not have been able to discover

-1

Anonymous #2 4d

The basic principles of nature don’t change. Our understanding of them does. And many of the things they came to understand through trial and error were more advanced than what we currently know. Their knowledge of the land was finely tuned by experience and oral tradition/memory. It’s only as we get more advanced that we realize how much they understood

9

Anonymous #7 4d

That does kinda just happen tbh. Their techniques died out with them

-1

Anonymous #2 4d

They knew how to keep the land bountiful and well-kept. When settlers arrived, they marveled at how many plants and animals there were to eat. Little did they know, that wasn’t an accident of nature, but the result of centuries of cultivation. Now we have destroyed so much of that with our agricultural methods, and we are going to suffer if we keep depleting the soil and the water. I highly recommend you read Tending the Wild by M Kat Anderson

5

Anonymous #2 4d

Their techniques didn’t die out, they’re still alive. We just don’t listen to them yet

4

Anonymous #7 4d

And we suffer for it

2

Anonymous #7 4d

Did you know that the first settlers would have died if not for the help locals have them? They had no idea how to survive on this land. To betray them after that is snakelike behavior. They only developed the strength to steal the land thanks to the natives’ help.

5

Anonymous #7 4d

Gave*

3

Anonymous #2 4d

We are destroying the fertility of the soil that took people thousands of years to develop. Power does not make someone better, the stupid and cruel can be powerful

5

Anonymous #7 4d

They needed more land ultimately. There are always gonna be losers in history so nations will do what is in better interest for them over morals and especially modern day morals.

5

Anonymous #7 4d

I feel like the destroying is mainly because of the increase of ppl who need food. The natives didn’t have as many ppl to get food for compared to today where we have to feed whole countries or even the whole world sometimes

1

Anonymous #2 4d

I just wanna say, I am enjoying this conversation. The settlement of the US is a shaken topic with people having a variety of views on it ultimately. Thank you

1

Anonymous #2 4d

There were a lot of people living here. Much more than initial estimates. And we could have scaled up and improved upon their methods. But instead we disregarded them and barged ahead with absolutely depleting the soil

9

Anonymous #2 4d

I appreciate that you’re open to conversation. I highly recommend further reading on this, particularly Tending the Wild

9

Anonymous #2 4d

Native people are still alive and much of their traditions and knowledge are still intact. I urge you to read their works and watch videos of their thought leaders to learn more. I can come back here with more specific resources if you’d like. There are a lot of myths and misunderstandings about native people and their history/our shared history

7

Anonymous #2 4d

No not actually

8

Anonymous #2 4d

And I’m not gonna lie, this conversation was not enjoyable for me. I have native friends who are affected by these widespread beliefs. The belief that they’re already dead and irrelevant is what contributes to the epidemic of missing and murdered indigenous women, because murderers are most likely to go after the least protected and cared for in our society. They are treated as a forgotten and ignored part of society due to these narratives

9

Anonymous #2 4d

I’m not trying to be mean, but this is upsetting to me and it took effort to keep my cool and have a productive conversation, but I wanted to because it is so important. Now imagine how an actual native person who is directly affected by this would feel when reading this, and consider that it might be even harder for them to keep their cool. I just want you to think about this for when you do encounter someone who does not want to calmly discuss such things

9

Anonymous #2 3d

Only reason science had to change so much is because they ignored the natives original ways of doing things which cause more problems than good. Leading them (to this day) to have to find their own ways of fixing things because they destroyed the original.

5

Anonymous #2 3d

Mostly because of the history taught in schools, most of it is changed to make the original settlers and people who “built” America look good. Known as “white washing”. A lot of it is wrong or vague and a person won’t know until they have the curiosity to learn further than their education taught them.

4

Anonymous #11 3d

“Native ways” led to mass extinctions and deforestation.

-2

Anonymous #4 3d

Yeah in the beginning when they were first figuring things out. That’s where the trial and error came in. They figured out how to maintain a balance eventually, and then cultivate things back up again. I recommend further reading on this

1

Anonymous #1 3d

It is on stolen land. Numerous land treaties were continuously broken. And if getting land through genocide isn’t stealing it then … well, nothing is stealing.

5

Anonymous #12 3d

Conquest isn’t theft, and right of conquest is long established.

-2

Anonymous #4 3d

1) Breaking treaties ≠ conquest. 2) love the effort to justify genocide tho.

4

Anonymous #4 3d

“Finders keepers” is child logic

9

Anonymous #2 3d

Another point I wanted to bring up is that Europe only developed so much technologically because it had access to knowledge and cultural exchange with Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. Inventions from each region were built upon by the other and passed back and forth between trade routes. The Americas were more isolated and didn’t have that chance, but they developed their own set of knowledge in areas the west had not yet developed (environmental stewardship, nutrition, mental health, etc)

1

Anonymous #7 3d

If we had worked with them, we could have built upon each others’ knowledge and created something even greater

1

Anonymous #7 3d

But the good news is we can still do that, if we choose to. They’ve worked hard to keep their knowledge alive

1

Anonymous #2 3d

Oh and many nations had advanced politics! Did you know that the framers of the constitution were heavily inspired by the political structures of the Haudenosaunee/Iroquois Confederacy?

6

Anonymous #7 3d

That’s actually a complete myth.

0

Anonymous #4 2d

Source?

1