This isn’t me saying femininity=gender btw. But do this a vast majority of trans men are interested in or experienced in things that most cis men aren’t. A lot of people see it as an insult but I personally see being more in touch with our feminine side as a HUGE compliment.

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Anonymous #1 23h

I’m kind of just generalizing what I’ve seen in most people. OBVIOUSLY there’s a ton of cis men who are in touch with their feminine side, and a FUCK ton of toxically masculine trans men, unfortunately.

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Anonymous #1 23h

So like if someone says “I don’t date trans men” I lowkey assume it has to do with their assumption of not only genitalia but personality traits too. Some people like that (no offense) ignorant cis man behavior/mentality. Kind of like when people say “I don’t date people from the military.” Because no, not EVERYONE who was in the military is loud and bossy and controlling, but I discovered a lot of people from the military are, so I tend to avoid it all together.

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Anonymous #1 23h

Gender is such a deep and complex topic that honestly “I don’t date trans men” isn’t necessarily something you can judge right away. Someone might have a completely ignorant and transphobic reason, but someone might have a completely understandable and valid reason.

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it’s controversial because it’s a bad take

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Anonymous #2 22h

“not the same as cis men at all” “tend to have more feminine qualities than cis men” i mean wtf.

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Anonymous #2 21h

Yeah that’s just a crazy thing to say. Not all trans men are fem. Not all of us want to be in touch with our feminine side. It’s great to be that way and I’m by no means toxically masculine but I hate being seen as feminine by default just because I’m a trans man

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Anonymous #2 21h

“Not the same as cis men” oh wow I love more “you will never be a real man” but woke 🥹🥹🥹🥰🥰🥰🥰

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Anonymous #1 20h

How is it a valid reason to exclude an ENTIRE demographic of vastly different people? Genuine question

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Anonymous #1 20h

I didn’t downvote you btw someone else did. I agree with your 3rd comment but your 4th comment is where your point gets lost.

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Anonymous #3 20h

Cis ≠ real. What on EARTH gave you that assumption?

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Anonymous #3 20h

I think you need to take a very deep look into femininity and masculinity. “In TOUCH with your feminine side” doesn’t JUST mean wearing makeup or being a woman. It could simply mean having traits that were historically associated with women, like being nurturing, gentle, or sensitive. Fucking JOHN CENA is in touch with his feminine side! Literally the MANLIEST man I’ve ever seen!

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Anonymous #3 20h

Femininity and masculinity are such deep and complex concepts. I’m so sick of people immediately assuming feminine=BEING a woman, and masculine=BEING a man. Being in touch with your feminine side literally just means not being repulsed by the idea of things like being sensitive or gentle.

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Anonymous #3 20h

Believe me, I understand having dysphoria. I literally DIDNT go to school today because my grandma put my binder in the washer and I simply cannot fathom going to school without a binder. But I also like art, cooking, iced coffee, and I fucking LOVE chick-flicks. All of those is associated with being feminine. That’s why you see guys get so insecure about ordering iced coffee instead of big strong manly black coffee.

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Anonymous #1 20h

Wether we like it or not, there are things in this world that are associated with femininity and masculinity. But if The Rock was seen drinking an iced coffee, I highly fucking doubt everyone would be accusing him of being transgender. Thats why I am comfortable saying “Yeah I like enjoying these things associated with women and femininity. Does that make me a woman? Does watching White Chicks make me a woman?” See how strange that sounds?

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Anonymous OP 20h

Yeh I get you. Ig I just have like this super complex idea of femininity and masculinity because of my Ojibwe culture, and I sometimes forget that not everyone was raised like me. In the Ojibwe language, pronounces aren’t gendered. The pronouns are “Me, You, 3rd person, 3rd person plural, We (including you), and We (excluding you).” And there’s this super complex pronoun called “Godag” which is like a pronoun for an unrelated person. “John’s mom.” Or “Leslie’s aunty.” Would be considered godag

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Anonymous #1 19h

That makes sense yeah! I just think that excluding a demographic because of personality traits is wrong too because we all don’t have the same personality. When someone says “I don’t date trans men” if they really mean feminine men why don’t they just say that? Ykwim? It is way less offensive as masc and fem usually dictates sexuality. Trans isn’t just an identity, it is also an upbringing/journey so it’s like transphobic for people to say they don’t want it in their life to be honest.

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Anonymous #1 19h

I’m not them, but I think they meant that is what cis people really mean when they say “I don’t date trans men, I date cis only.” It is a microaggression, and sometimes they even say “I want REAL (body part)”

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Anonymous #1 19h

…but my point still stands that not all trans men want to be feminine and it’s important to respect that lol. Toxic masculinity is annoying af but it’s also annoying (to a much lesser degree) to be associated with femininity as a default. That’s all

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Anonymous #1 19h

you’re on this crusade that feminine≠being a woman while also saying that trans men have an inherent connection to femininity that cis men don’t. you can’t have it both ways. it doesn’t matter if you dress it up in bioessentialism or ~divine feminine~ bullshit, this is garden variety transphobia.

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Anonymous #2 17h

“I like waffles.” “Oh so you hate pancakes?”

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Anonymous #2 17h

Let me make this as clear as I can. • Feminine ≠ being a woman. • Gender is a very complex concept. I’m ACTUALLY way too stoned rn to waste my time explaining this. You’ll understand when ur older ig. You can choose to be upset and offended by everything I said, and let it take over your life. You can let me stay in your head or try and win this internet argument. But honestly… I’m content with just letting it be.

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Anonymous #1 16h

Not even like sarcastically. I feel like I explained things best I could, but you choose to ignore any point I had and immediately water it down to being transphobic or something, despite me being trans. And I’m not even like hypermasc trans too. I’m pretty androgynous. I’m also 2 spirit so my concept of gender vs the western concept is very different. Anyways, yeah. Downvote me if it makes you feel better, but I’ve made my peace with the fact that you aren’t willing to agree with me.

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Anonymous #1 16h

It’s such a peaceful concept. Accepting the say things are and not arguing with strangers on the internet anymore.

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Anonymous #1 16h

This is how I feel rn lowkey

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Anonymous #1 16h

Ok but lowk can u explain the significance of 2-spirit and what it really means? Genuinely curious, this isn’t really related to the argument. I’ve done a lot of research into these third genders in the past and all it really seems to be is another way for non-Western cultures to categorize trans or gnc people into an “other” category? But I could be totally wrong. It’s also the case with hijras in India and such to my knowledge

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Anonymous #1 13h

No you’re right about feminine not equalling being a woman. I completely agree with you, I think other commenters are disagreeing because you originally still justified that it’s ok for cis people to not wanna date trans people, not because of what you’re saying about gender. If I am wrong then I’m sorry I just can’t see why anyone would disagree with you because that is also the point I am making.

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Anonymous OP 13h

i’m upset both that they’re defending transphobia + also that their gender framework is itself transphobic. saying trans men are “not the same as cis men at all” is fundamentally unacceptable and saying that trans men have an inherent connection to femininity that cis men don’t is transphobic. justifying people choosing not to date trans men because of their assumptions about “feminine personality traits” is transphobic and is something that they themselves are perpetuating.

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Anonymous #2 13h

Oh apologies I thought someone else said that, the comments section got confusing for me!

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