Anonymous #2 20h

>I'm not a trans woman leave then

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Anonymous #2 20h

Allies like you who draw this shit are worse than the actual transphobes who try to make transphobic caricatures

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Anonymous #1 20h

I think you forgot to read further. But what about her? What about the other trans women I’ve met at artist alleys who also wish they saw more representation of them in art. Why are you treating them like a pest and calling me transphobic when I’m being INCLUSIVE of these trans women? Genuinely how am I worse when I’m the one listening to what these kind of trans women want? 😀

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Anonymous #1 20h

contrapoints has a great and kinda personal video on something like this from a while back called "transtrenders."

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Anonymous #1 20h

I’m open to a genuine discussion if you would be

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Anonymous #2 20h

So then depict HER with the beard if she wants to be depicted that way, but trans women in general should not be depicted this way.

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Anonymous #3 20h

What does this mean. Like are you calling women with beards trenders?

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Anonymous #1 19h

This art wasn’t meant to be of a trans woman they just picked it because it fits what they’re saying. It’s probably a canva stock photo of a person that has their gender up to interpretation.

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Comment Deleted

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Anonymous #1 19h

Ok genuine question. Why shouldn’t all be included simply because that crowd has a trait you wouldn’t like in yourself? Isn’t that what we as a community are trying to fight against? They still exist. You don’t have to answer this next part if you’re not comfortable but do you have discomfort in trans women like that? Do you think theyre wrong with their identity if you go as far as to tell *everyone* to not include them in representative posts/art?

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Anonymous #2 19h

Would you draw cis women with beards?

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Anonymous #4 19h

no absolutely not. it's a deeply personal video for me bc i watched it very early on in transition, and i think it was for contra too. it talks about this butting up of people who are openly very gender non conforming against people who are very gender conforming and why it hits such a deep nerve to see ppl who you see have something in common with you be so different and so against what you want for yourself. i've tamped down a lot of it in myself, but i still have that kind of

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Anonymous #3 19h

"panic instinct" or deep reaction to someone who, for example for me, uses he/they but still presents really femininely. it's uncomfortable for me, and also, it's not about me. they're them, and i'm me. the video doesn't end with anyone being right or wrong;it's a discussion of kinda the why it happens.

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Some of them do! I agree that making all art the same with a beard is bad but you seem to just be enforcing gender stereotypes which are colonialist, eurocentric and racist. You give me badddd vibes.

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Anonymous #3 19h

Oh okay awesome I misinterpreted what you said

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Anonymous #4 19h

no problem, it's a topic where you gotta know the other person respects who you are as a person before getting into the details, so i appreciate you asking for clarification

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Anonymous #1 19h

On my art account I have gotten questions on if I’d be willing to make TW with beards stickers as a suggestion by TW with beards bc I’ve been told they wish they saw more representation. So I did. When I went to artist alleys to sell I sold a surprising amount of it by trans women and friends of trans women they knew would love it. I was once told a story by a TW and how she felt so out of place sometimes bc she doesn’t mind her hair or having a hairy body and has gotten plenty of hate for it.

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Anonymous #4 19h

If a cis women say they don't want to be drawn with a beard are they reinforcing gender stereotypes? Why is it only trans women who have to fight against gender stereotypes when we just don't want to be seen as men

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Anonymous #1 19h

If someone would want it I absolutely would! Cıs women come in all sorts of shapes and sizes too, minority or not theyre still amazing I didn’t really make any art of trans women with beards until someone asked about it, and then that attracted a bit of a crowd when I posted it of them loving the representation

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Anonymous #2 19h

The vast majority of trans women do not have beards and don't want to be drawn with beards, it reinforces the idea that trans women are men. You can make art that shows trans women with beards but trans women as a whole should be depicted the same way as cis women, because we are women.

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Anonymous #2 19h

Okay that's great that you're not just making trans women have beards

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Anonymous #1 19h

But how is the representation of others hurting you? It only reinforces it if that’s the intention that the person drawing it has. I’m not putting in representation because I think all trans women should be represented as such. Hair≠gender, even cis women hate that fully shaved/no hair should be what “being a woman” is. Hair is a very HUMAN thing to have. remember that.

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Anonymous #2 19h

No it doesn't only reinforce transphobia if that's the intention that the creator has. Even if the creator isn't transphobic, the drawing can still reinforce transphobia. It's already a stereotype that trans women are manly, which is why these depictions are harmful. Arabs have a stereotype of having big noses and unruly beards, and portraying an arab character with a big nose and an unruly beard would reinforce those stereotypes, even though some arabs might like that representation.

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Anonymous #1 18h

Then we’re suppose to just cut out those trans women because other trans women who do have that dysphoria think it’s harmful to them even when it’s not about them? It only reinforces it if that’s the intention, and 99% of the time it’s VERY obvious when transphobia is trying to be reinforced (not just with body hair but also by purposefully making the person look “ugly” or look “evil” in genuine transphobic depictions)

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Anonymous #2 17h

This is just the “I can’t be transmisogynistic, I have a trans woman friend” line And we already count stuff as transphobic even if the intention isn’t so. If a parent doesn’t allow their kid to transition because they think it’ll send them to hell, their intentions might be good from their perspective, but we recognize it’s transphobia. Intent doesn’t matter

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Anonymous #4 17h

You’d have to be living under a rock to think this is just some cherry-picked example instead of an increasingly growing trend. A trend that, I’m sure very coincidentally, never actually has trans women artists drawing trans women with gigantic bushy beards and has very little support among trans women

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Anonymous #2 17h

Also the audacity to try and reclaim the dysphoria of a group you aren’t even a part of is wild. You’re not a trans woman, knock it off. With any other minority group we would recognize that reclaiming something you’re not affected by is problematic, but you don’t extend that same idea to trans women

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Anonymous #6 17h

No I know it’s a trend but I was letting them know about this one

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Anonymous #5 17h

I’ve met a cis woman with a beard but not a trans one

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Anonymous #7 17h

That’s badass.

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Anonymous #5 16h

100%, she was a cool person in general. though I wish I talked with her more (we didn’t exchange numbers or anything, sadly)

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Anonymous #6 8h

Crazy how I never tried to reclaim anyone’s dysphoria, I was stating a fact that not every trans person has the same dysphoria and it’s crazy to try and cut out a minority that makes YOU personally uncomfortable It’s not transphobia, y’all are weird to try and keep pushing that it is. All I did was listen to a minority who told me word for word that they liked seeing the representation. You do not set the rules simply bc you are uncomfortable with them. You are transphobic.

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Anonymous #9 8h

I really love the perspective of “I’ve never seen one so therefore they don’t exist”

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Anonymous #2 8h

Pushing transphobic stereotypes about trans women is harmful period and I really don’t give a shit if your singular trans woman friend loves it. She doesn’t speak for everyone and the VAST majority of us do not want to be represented or portrayed that way. Again, it’s really upsetting and exhausting that we are consistently the only group of people in this community that have no say in conversations ABOUT US.

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Anonymous #3 7h

Natalie has also made it a point in later content to tell people NOT to force gender nonconformity onto trans women. She literally got crucified on Twitter for saying she doesn’t want to be referred to as a “womxn.”

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Anonymous #8 7h

Thank you for listening 🫶🏻 it gets really exhausting trying to communicate that shit like this is a dysphoria bomb and only serves to inflame tensions between trans women and society. I am all for people being them but I really need this community to let me and my sisters be us. There is space for gender nonconformity and there is space for trans women to be gender conforming women.

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