Anonymous _orangutan 5d

Antizionists make statements like “get the colonizers out”…how do you think that would be done?

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Anonymous #2 5d

It absolutely should.

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Anonymous OP 5d

it’s interesting how ur able to recognize the violence behind decolonization but seem to refuse to acknowledge that it implies colonization itself is violent.

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Anonymous OP 5d

also israeli settlers could leave whenever they want to and oftentimes with the financial and legal support of the israeli government…no one forced them to steal homes with occupants in them

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Anonymous #3 5d

Two wrongs don’t make a right. The answer to genocide and displacement isn’t more genocide and displacement.

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Anonymous #4 5d

Yes, but they’ve never been people I’ve considered the brightest on the block. My Jewish friends are zionists who do not support the Netanyahu regime or Israel’s actions, but believe that both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist in safety and freedom. I stand with them.

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Anonymous OP 5d

if you believe that palestine has a right to exist then you do not support zionism in its current form

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Anonymous #4 5d

I’m fucking exhausted from watching people condone speech calling for the expulsion of the Jewish people from Israel. Y’all are horrible and disgusting people, no better than the Israelis who say the same things towards Palestinians.

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Anonymous OP 5d

Based

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Anonymous #3 5d

Read up on the types of Zionism

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Anonymous OP 5d

i don’t think u can really say that removing colonizers from a place that isn’t there’s is comparable to colonizers removing the indigenous people from their literal homes. also, i didn’t advocate for genocide. if you actually read my comment, you’ll see where i said israelis can peacefully withdraw from palestinian lands using the support of their government (which is backed by the most powerful country on earth) to relocate to a home that doesn’t have palestinian residents already there

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Anonymous OP 5d

this is the type of response i give when i have nothing substantive to say

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Anonymous #3 5d

Well, 1. Many Jewish people were there all along. 2. The land was theirs before the Romans even came up with the name Palestine, because, you know, they got expelled in the diasporas. No one needs to leave. They are all indigenous to the land, and anyone who says otherwise is propagating antisemitic rhetoric.

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Anonymous #3 5d

I have plenty, but I’m too exhausted by the level of bullshit spewed on this. I can’t believe I’m watching my generation be this pro-violence.

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Anonymous OP 5d

i can guarantee you wouldn’t take this same tone if someone came into your house, kicked you out and claimed it was for religious reasons from thousands of years ago

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Anonymous #3 5d

If this is about the recent West Bank settlers, I do think they should return to Israel. And Israel should be held accountable for its response in Gaza in a humanitarian way, but suggesting expulsion is barbaric and disgusting.

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Anonymous OP 5d

i just struggle to see what exactly you envision as a humanitarian coexistence when israel has repeatedly violated the ceasefire and has effectively already annexed the west bank. why is the onus on palestinians to welcome them as neighbors when they’re being choked out of every facet of their life, even down to which roads they’re allowed to use or what food they’re allowed to eat.

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Anonymous OP 5d

i’m jewish and antizionist and i grew up in a very jewish environment that was staunchly zionist. i still to this day do not entirely understand why people think we need our own country. jews are VERY diverse and it is both a religion and an ethnicity, therefore the whole idea that all jews are inherently attached to this land is so far removed and just does not work in the modern lens.

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Anonymous #4 5d

Multiple Jewish people I care about deeply have told me that Israel is the only place they’ve ever felt fully safe from antisemitism. Having a place where their culture is the norm means so much to them. I can’t relate as someone who left my culture, but I empathize with what they feel there.

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Anonymous #3 5d

Do you not see how this logic works both ways? how Israelis will reference terror attacks for why they may not want to coexist with Palestinians. At some point we should stop encouraging displacing populations and annexing territories and agree upon borders. The constant one state rhetoric blow up any opportunity of that bc you’re endlessly justifying one side attacking the other. The self feeding cycle seems very obvious to me.

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Anonymous OP 5d

the concept of israelis saying that israel is unsafe bc of antisemitic terrorists on their border but also that israel is the only place where they’re safe is so ironic

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Anonymous #3 5d

I’m not talking about Israelis in this case, I’m talking about American Jewish people who lived there briefly or visit family there.

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

it actually doesn’t work both ways bc palestinians aren’t going into israeli homes with the backing of their government and kicking them off their own properties at gunpoint. if someone came into your house and threatened to kill you if you didn’t leave, i don’t think you would be saying “oh well i don’t wanna displace that person”

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Anonymous #3 5d

It’s almost like both the Israelis and Palestinians have good reason to be terrified of each other and the only solution is peace building initiatives that help them build trust and start to work together.

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Anonymous OP 5d

and i completely get that but we need to understand that israel is not necessarily a home to every jew and zionism often doesn’t include every jew. i’d rather address and combat the antisemitism in the world (esp in the US) than feel like my entire identity as a jew boils down to a piece of land so far removed from my ancestry.

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Anonymous OP 5d

israelis are so afraid of palestinians that they constantly move to the west bank in palestinian homes

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Anonymous #4 5d

That’s fair, and my hostility is not directed at you. I’m pissed off at the people who don’t realize that what they’re calling for would just lead to more genocide and displacement.

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Anonymous #3 5d

What do you think happened during Oct 7th? Palestine went into homes and killed people with guns. Yes I’m also not for West Bank settlements? I don’t think West Bank settlements call for the destruction of Israel and the displacement of Jews that’s what is currently being argued.

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Anonymous #3 5d

Palestinians*

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Anonymous #3 5d

The West Bank settlers should return to Israel imo. Make another argument if you’re just trying to argue.

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

when did i call for the destruction of israel?

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Anonymous #3 5d

So you just agree with us? that’s the point of the post…

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Anonymous #3 5d

Maybe I should clarify that I’m more angry with pro-Palestine only people than Pro-Israel only people because I only ever really see the opinions of pro-Palestine only people because I’m in leftist spaces. If I saw more pro-Israel only takes, I’d be more mad at them too, because both are bullshit.

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Anonymous OP 5d

neither of u are able to explain to me why it’s on the onus of palestinians to just take their annihilation essentially for the greater good or what a long term humanitarian solution would look like

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Anonymous #3 5d

When did I say they should just take it? It’s a war, both had a right to defend themselves. But peace and co-existence are the goal.

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Anonymous #3 5d

When did either of us say the onus was on Palestinians? A long term humanitarian solution would be an agreement between the two parties on land and populations.

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

well op said no one has to leave while there are active settlements in the west bank for 1

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Anonymous #3 5d

Yes they clarified already that they wanted settlers to leave.

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

does israel want that? and if not, how do we reconcile that with your vision of some peaceful coexistence?

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Anonymous #3 5d

and don’t say “oh the us can just force it” cuz the current president wants to make gazalago and the last president allowed netanyahu to cross every alleged “red line” he had

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Anonymous #3 5d

We’re not gonna have the same president forever hopefully popular sentiment in the U.S. has shifted enough we can have a more critical stance with Israel. Obviously as sad and gross as it is, as an American I’m first worried about my country not being a weird authoritarian place before I’m worried about Gaza. In 2012 66% of Israelis supported a two state solution obviously after Oct 7th that fell by a lot. I think that can happen again hopefully we have some form of Palestinian self governance.

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Anonymous #3 5d

In Gaza that can show that Palestinians can control land without large terror attacks.

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Anonymous #3 5d

But the thing that keeps holding it up is bad actors on both sides that’s why I find the one state solution usually gives rhetorical ammo to those people who would wish to to wipe out one side or the other.

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

i am not sure where exactly hamas has been bad faith in the negotiations, they’ve said pretty much since the start that they were open to relinquishing governing power and the hostages in exchange for a permanent ceasefire. that seems pretty rational to me, especially considering the horror that’s been unleashed by israel in gaza. if i’m missing something feel free to elaborate.

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

also, i understand ur take on caring more abt domestic issues over gaza, but these things are linked. one reason kamala lost was her refusal to break from the biden policy on israel, leading her to lose lots of poc and young voters on top of voters who were angry abt the economy and immigration. furthermore, our governments support for israel often overshadows their focus and ability to address domestic issues due to scarcity of time and resources.

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

furthermore, the idf literally trains american police forces AND ice. americas lockstep support for israel effectively imports more deadly, aggressive and punitive state sanctioned violence. gaza and the us’ issues with authoritarianism and general decay are much more linked than ur implying

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Anonymous #3 5d

I think shooting up a music festival is generally bad faith. I think sending rockets at civilians is bad faith etc. that’s how they are and have been bad faith actors. Gaza was pretty insignificant compared to economy when came to Kamala. Israel is not a large portion of our budget just like U.S. aid isn’t, just like Egypt isn’t just like Ukraine isn’t. No they aren’t that closely linked, I’m not implying anything I’m speaking pretty directly.

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

the oct 7 point rings hollow for me considering israel has killed 16.6 times more children in gaza compared to the entire death toll on oct 7. october 7th was bad, but israel’s conduct has just been objectively worse. and u just completely ignored my comment abt the idf training ice. also-it’s not just abt budget numbers. i was also saying priority for time. i think it’s convenient that no one ever asks how we’ll pay for weapons to israel but they do for something as simply as food stamps.

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

and again-hamas has been offering to relinquish the hostages and power of gaza since then genocide began. israel actively made the decision to tank any hope for a ceasefire, including the current one. i don’t think you can “oct 7th” your way out of 68,000 dead palestinians versus 1200 israelis. anyone sane is not buying that nonsense anymore

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

btw-egypt shared intelligence with israel that the music festival was in danger and israeli decided to let it happen anyway! isn’t it curious that they ignored intelligence abt an attack that would justify a war? one that could take the attention away from netanyahus own corruption charges in israel? but sure let’s say “there’s bad actors on both sides” cuz that’s sooo insightful

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Anonymous #3 4d

Idk why other dead people would make another side not morally responsible for dead people but ok. We’re not talking what’s worse what an irrelevant point. Bc I don’t care about IDF training ICE who directs ice is 1000x more important. Idk take that up with republicans who don’t want to pay for social services idk what you want me to say.

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Anonymous #3 4d

Literally no one said that you’re arguing with a ghost just like when made up we were pro settlements. I don’t think netanyahu is a good actor either but Hamas doesn’t justify his bad actions and his bad action don’t justify hamas’s bad actions. Again Israel not stopping Hamas doesn’t take any autonomy from Hamas or any moral responsibility for their actions.

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