Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

well coming into the country illegally or overstaying a visa is illegal. “no criminal record” is pretty generous. The amount that have been sent to CECOT is ~0.07% of deportations and less than 300 people total out of 300+ thousand deportations. It would not be so much of an issue if Venezuela repatriated them but they refuse. Many of the deaths under ICE have been medical, or literal terror attacks where people tried to shoot officers and missed. The rest are being investigated.

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Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

I mean people die of medical emergency at disney world every year, casualties will happen when you’re processing hundreds of thousands and it doesn’t imply ill care on the part of the agency. These people are not “disappeared.” In every instance of a US citizen or someone wrongfully deported it has been litigated. It is national news in several instances. That is not “disappeared.” There is clearly a robust oversight consistent with Federal Law.

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Anonymous OP 1w

We are generally supposed to have proportional responses to crimes and historically undocumented immigrants are tried civilly more than criminally. Your justification for ICE’s detainment and eventual deaths whilst in custody reflects your lack of interest in actually preserving the law/valuing the lives of humans

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Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

SCOTUS has consistently affirmed the mission of ICE in executing Federal Law. The Congress has affirmed this duty in expanding ICE funding. The elected President ran on a campaign of deportations and won the popular vote. This is democracy. I have had the opportunity to meet several agents and regional directors of ICE and CBP. News flash most of the agents are Hispanic because there’s a higher disposition of Spanish speakers in ICE/CBP. That is not the makeup of an SS squad committing terror.

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Anonymous OP 1w

Due process rights exist for a reason. Anyone can say you’re committing a crime and arrest you without a judge reviewing your case. The reality is you have a law enforcement agency wearing masks in unmarked vans kidnapping people without due process and holding them without a judge reviewing their case. That’s not just 300 instances but thousands. Some of them are American Citizens, Legal Residents going through the correct process, children born here, students, etc.

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Anonymous #2 1w

The Union is in a tipping point. Systemic failures in immigration enforcement under previous administrations brought us here. This did not happen in a vacuum. We should not be surprised that enforcement had to come to this. You can’t just come to a country illegally. There is a consequence. When previous admins flooded millions of illegals in with no checks, a response like this was inevitable.

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Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

ICE agents have been targeted in their homes. They have been targeted in structured terror attacks. That is why they wear masks. Maybe if Leftist extremists weren’t gunning down Federal Agents it wouldn’t be a problem. If you aren’t illegally here realistically there is no issue. I live in California. We were told deportations en masse would kill the economy. That they were targeting everyone. They clearly aren’t. If they were grabbing everyone then crop prices here would have boomed.

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Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

We’re a year in and no major change has happened in the Ag economy. If ICE was really deporting everyone en masse there is no way the Ag market wouldn’t have moved. The reality is that these deportations rely on court sanctioned orders consistent with Federal Law.

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Anonymous OP 1w

CECOT is just one example. There are thousands more where ICE violated the law and defied court orders. If you think that it’s not a big deal why was 60 minute’s documentary on the site was censored? If there’s nothing to hide, there’s nothing for the administration to fear showing the conditions of that camp. Even if you are an ‘illegal alien’, that is not punishable by being tortured, r*ped, and beaten in some camp in a foreign country.

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Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

The policies we have under this administration are not even that restrictive. Most of the actions Mr. Trump has done have been for show. “Alligator Alcatraz” was not a serious policy. If you think the current enforcement is that radical you’re buying into DHS propaganda. There really aren’t the numbers to back up the claim that ICE is deporting en masse. SCOTUS has repeatedly affirmed ICEs enforcement capability anyhow. Questions about enforcement are being litigated, that is how the US works

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Anonymous OP 1w

It’s peculiar you’re saying the union as if it’s not just the US. The union was a specific sect of the US when the confederation tried to secede. Are you a confederate? There have been consequences. It strains the court system when mass immigration occurs and the tactics are generally unlawful Let me ask as well. If it would not hurt the economy or country in the slightest, would you be for naturalizing all immigrants and then advocating for a border solution through congress?

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Anonymous OP 1w

Nothing justifies violating the constitution the country was founded on. People have rights. Government has limits including law enforcement.

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Anonymous #2 1w

the Union is a term for the whole country. We are a Union of 50 states. I submit to the Constitution as the final law of the land. SCOTUS has affirmed ICEs enforcement as consistent with the US Constitution

1

Anonymous OP 1w

OP answer this: Is it ok for law enforcement to wear masks and take people in unmarked vans without a warrant ordered by a judge or due process?

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Anonymous OP 1w

Just a specific way of phrasing is all. I’m not contesting their legality of being able to enforce immigration deployment. I’m contesting that the officers are doing things lawfully, as many of the cases are being thrown out and the Trump admin has been arguing that immigrants are not subject to due process.

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Anonymous #2 1w

Policy wise, I am more sympathetic to a mass amnesty program. Mr. Reagan signed into law mass amnesty in his administration. Unfortunately Congress failed to fund the dual nature of the policy; which was amnesty for those here and border protection to stop more coming. IF Congress could agree to that I would support it. I am skeptical of Congress though given their failures in the past. It seems neither party wants to make a serious response to the issue.

3

Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

Without a warrant yes, but my interactions with DHS regional heads and ICE officials always had them underlining their court orders. In the ways the raids have been targeted as well these hardly seem to be spurious raids. ICE regularly publishes individuals they have deported that had criminal backgrounds to provide transparency on their actions.

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Anonymous OP 1w

“My interactions with DHS regional Heads and ICE Officials” oml

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Anonymous #2 1w

I’m not a confederate at all lol I think the confederate “conservatives” are brain dead anti-american traitors. That aside, we will see as this gets litigated further through the courts and I will submit to their authority at the end of the day. So far SCOTUS has ruled in favor of this administration fairly frequently but we will see. I myself am skeptical of many of the centralization powers this administration has taken. I do not envy executive control over legislative prerogatives

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Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

I work in LA politics it’s fairly easy to meet these people at events and fundraisers. The Conservative circle in LA is pretty small because we are marginal population wise, so it’s easier for staffers and interns to meet higher level federal officials when a Republican is in the presidency

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Anonymous OP 1w

If there are hundreds of videos of men in masks refusing to identify themselves taking people including American Citizens with documentation, is that constitutional?

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Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

The amount of arrests that have been US citizens is fairly marginal, it has happened sure but it is limited. There is no constitutional mandate that says an officer can’t wear a mask. I would be more sympathetic to your position if they weren’t literally being gunned down. There are people who dox agents and then there are some that have gone further and committed terror attacks on them. There is clearly some justification for hiding their face.

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Anonymous OP 1w

You’re avoiding to answer the question directly and denying that these things are happening right now. Doesn’t matter in what officials playing a role in this says. The reality is that if law enforcement are taking people without due process, refusing to identify themselves, and there are accounts of American Citizens, Veterans, and Legal Residents being detained they’re violating the constitution and our rights. That’s not up for debate.

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Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

The courts have affirmed that no identification is unlawful, and the cases it has happened in are minimal relative to total enforcement. In nearly every raid I have seen the agents have enormous patches saying ICE or DHS. You are taking marginal cases and blowing them up into a bigger indictment on the whole system. The courts have adjudicated where ICE has overstepped. The numbers of US Citizens, lawful residents, or otherwise protected classes being effected by these raids is statistically low

1

Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

the bottom line is ICE is not just kidnapping American citizens willy nilly. That is not reality. They aren’t even deporting non-citizens willy nilly. If that was the case the farm worker economy in California would be devastated right now. We’re a year in and there has been no noticeable difference in prices. Yet I’m supposed to believe that ICE is just kidnapping everyone in violation of Federal Law? There have been oversteps sure, but that does not mean all of ICE is a rogue state actor.

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Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

ICE is buy and large operating consistently with Federal and Constitutional law, as the courts have affirmed several times

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Anonymous OP 1w

You’re honestly just following whatever the government is telling you and it’s frustrating to engage with someone like that when everything I’m seeing is the exact opposite. People in regular clothes, face masks, and unmarked vans taking people without due process. Videos of officers refusing to show their badge number and taking down cameras in people’s homes. You have eyes but you refuse to see because you support what they’re doing and I can’t change that. Not engaging with you anymore.

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Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

It is the duty of the courts to litigate this. At times they have opposed ICEs claims and clarified Federal statute. For the most part they have affirmed ICEs capability as consistent with Federal Law. The Republic is built upon willing individual submission to the institutions of the State. Questioning those institutions is fine, but this has clearly been litigated and the bounds in regards to Federal Law is clear.

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Anonymous ascend_guy 1w

If you refuse institutional authority you are no better than the authoritarian who capriciously enacts policies at their own whims. These institutions have litigated the policies, and as of now it has fallen in favor of the current administrations enforcement. It is not “whatever the government is telling me” It is hundreds of court cases that have argued the matter. If that isn’t enough to sway you I question your dedication to the Republic and her institutions.

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Anonymous OP 1w

It is the duty of the courts to litigate this, but the courts refuse to do so- and immigrants do not have rights to due process, and can be shipped to foreign prisons without it. Tell me right now- if you are considered an illegal immigrant and picked up by ICE, what is your process for redress when you do not have the right to counsel, when you get shuffled through a packed court and immediately shipped off, and inquires by any family members are met with outright lies?

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Anonymous OP 1w

“If you refuse institutional authority…” the institution has authority because people trust it in the first place to be fair. Any government that has ever done something immoral has had authority, and has decided what it was doing was legal and just under its own laws. This says literally nothing. And I definitely question “hundreds of court cases” there.

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Anonymous #3 1w

According to Politico there have been over 100 court rulings on the Administrations mandatory detention policy, an aspect of the current immigration regime. In addition there are hundreds of individual cases each of which could be prosecuted up to SCOTUS, with SCOTUS already hearing several major immigration cases this year alone. The system does provide due process and deported individuals do go through proper channels.

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Anonymous #3 1w

The SCOTUS has repeatedly affirmed ICEs compliance with Federal Statute. Illegal Aliens are not regarded with the same rights. Why should the American taxpayer pay for the counsel of a non-citizen. There is no such requirement under Federal law. The courts have litigated this and they have affirmed Federal primacy in several instances. The current exercise of immigration law today is no different, though expanded in effort, than previous attempts by other administrations

1

Anonymous #3 1w

This is only such an issue now because Mr. Trump is the one exercising the policy. Realistically, there is no massive growth in Federal policy making in immigration law. They are acting on decades old statutes pursuant to the immigration code. While I sympathize with those deported, one cannot simply enter a foreign country with blatant disregard for the laws of that nation. Why is the issue always with federal authority and not the people breaking the law.

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Anonymous #3 1w

The scope of federal authority is clear in this instance, SCOTUS and the various courts have affirmed ICEs abilities under Federal statute. This is not some Soviet court where the government just gets away with illegal acts. The courts can and have pushed back on the administration. The existence of those cases proves the resiliency of the system. For better or for worse this administrations actions are largely lawful as outlined by the courts.

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Anonymous #3 1w

If you wish to deny the authority of the Legislature, Executive, and Courts in this instance, that is your own prerogative. But that makes you no better than a tyrant. If your instincts are primary to that of the establishment of this nation, then you refuse the Constitutional bounds which allow a Republic to exist.

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