Anonymous #2 11w

13 so far in just ICE detention facilities, more from ICE personnel on the street, and lets not forget alligator auschwitz

11

Anonymous OP 11w

Did they actually get killed or did they die in custody

-3

Anonymous #2 11w

They died from inhumane conditions in ICE facilities

12

Anonymous OP 11w

That’s what the autopsies said?

-4

Anonymous #2 11w

Jesus, read a fucking article! Do i have to show you their fucking corpses!?!

15

Anonymous OP 11w

Half this shit is “still under investigation” and has been for like 6 months. They’re not likely to release anything on it.

9

Anonymous OP 11w

Not seeing anything about inhumane conditions, so just asking if there was something I didn’t see. Don’t get butthurt.

-5

Anonymous OP 11w

Oh

1

Anonymous #2 11w

they’ve been keeping people in random basements…

3

I mean… yeah just sounds like a normal prison to me.. But I live in Florida so used to the gators

-2

Anonymous #2 11w

Are we arguing? you can’t agree whether the conditions are inhumane? or what’s your point here? Here’s some basic common sense: whether conditions are “humane” depends on perspective. The thing is conditions can be “inhumane” WITHOUT people dying. The fact there ARE reported deaths alludes to how severe things have gotten. “Inhumane conditions” is a fair assumption considering massive overcrowding (56k detained vs capacity ~23k). If ur too lazy to source info, just chatgbt it lol

3

Anonymous #6 11w

Burden of proof typically lies on the one asserting the claim. I’m just asking for more evidence because I was unable to find any alluding to deaths caused by the ‘inhumane’ conditions. Feel free to provide info, I’m open to it.

1

Anonymous #2 11w

okay ill bite. So in trying to find evidence for deaths caused by inhumane conditions, what did you end up finding anyways?

1

Anonymous #6 11w

likeeee this “burden of proof stuff” shouldn’t equate to spoon-feeding you information and then you react to it. Anyways here comes the 🚂 open wide

1

Anonymous #6 11w

That doesn’t relate the deaths to bad conditions?

1

Anonymous #6 11w

Theres no suitable proof for this dude unless u showed him the physical autopsy that would never be provided because ICE would keep that info locked tight to avoid litigation

1

Anonymous OP 11w

You have literally one source that one random guy said it was overcrowded and you somehow drew the conclusion that people died from inhumane conditions in there? I really am open, but that seems kinda stupid to me. Give me literally any actual evidence and I’d be happy to agree with you.

0

Anonymous #2 11w

some other evidence is the spike in deaths from 2024 to 2025. For the total year of 2024, it was 12. For 2025, it is already 13. Because of the huge increase, there’s too much stress on the system to maintain humane conditions. The inhumane condition is the overcrowding. Just forcing thousands of people into unsafe, unsanitary, and under-resourced facilities is enough to be concerning and deadly

3

Anonymous #6 11w

you can argue they may have died of medical conditions that they had prior to entering into the facility, but nonetheless, these are still related whether they received inadequate medical care.

4

Anonymous #6 11w

not mention ICE largely investigates itself. reports of abuse and neglect rarely lead to consequences if the US is even serious about HUMANE immigration policy, it should shift away from mass detention & towards community-based case management. canada and many countries in europe use these models more successfully and with FAR fewer deaths

3

Anonymous OP 11w

you have no idea my patience with that “burden of proof” nonsense. those incident logs, medical audits, and death reviews aren’t as public as they should be.

3

Anonymous #6 11w

There are more deaths because there are more people being detained, so that’s not a great argument. UK and Canada have a very small amount of people being held so obviously they would have less deaths. Obviously people should have access to decent medical care but you don’t know who’s just trying to cause issues while being detained in hopes of getting out somehow. So it’s a tough thing to manage. Not to mention the cost of it.

1

Anonymous #2 11w

Obviously if you gave everyone being detained a full body work up with CT scans, heart evaluations, etc you’d prevent deaths - but that’s not realistic.

1

Anonymous #2 11w

“Sounds like a normal prison to me” Okay. Then serve time there. Give it a try, let me know how humane you think it is.

1

Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 11w

Well I haven’t committed any crimes. Wouldn’t want to stay in a regular prison or that detainment center.

0

I do think everyone should have due process, but it is complicated because of the sheer numbers of people that have illegally immigrated.

0

Anonymous #2 11w

Wait… I see your point. More important than the death numbers are HOW people die, that’s why you said autopsies. so the overcrowding increased by 140% but the death count from 12-13 between 2024 to 2025 is an 8% increase, not 140% Sooo the numbers aren’t proportional, though we still have months left in 2025. That medical neglect due to the system being clogged is still increasing risk, even if death counts haven’t exploded yet. let me find something about the 13 who have died so far

1

Anonymous #6 11w

For the 13 of 2025: (2 suicides. caused by inhumane conditions, lack of care) (1 aortic aneurysm, caused by care delays in transport & custody) (10 cases pending review) You have to remember, ICE detaining is technically a civil administrative system, not a punitive one. It should be distinct from incarceration. “sounds like a normal prison” won’t work as an arguing point. It’s sometimes worse, bc there’s no fixed sentence or even guaranteed legal representation

1

Anonymous #2 11w

Agreed, not everyone can get a full body work-up. a 68-year-old man w/ hypertension, Abelardo Delgado, had flagged risk factors at intake. He was in a wheelchair, confused & undermedicated in jail before being transferred, suggesting issues went undetected. detained people are 100% at the mercy of the system for survival, for medical care & safety. we agree, it’s unrealistic BECAUSE we are cramming them in there. It’s not a matter of IF they die of inhumane conditions, it’s how many more

1

Anonymous #2 11w

let’s agree even more. Im putting out for you. let’s agree the sheer numbers of people who have illegally immigrated have put tremendous strain on the ICE detaining system. Is it still realistic to detain all of them? Do we have any other options? Could we scale up methods that other countries are employing? Could we improve judicial oversight so ICE doesn’t investigate itself? even if we didnt care about human suffering, these improvements could at least be more cost-efficient in the long run

0

Anonymous #6 11w

I mean I can’t even agree on the first 3, you can’t prove that 2 suicides are because of ‘inhumane conditions,’ there could’ve been literally a million other reasons they killed themselves. Also aortic aneurysms post rupture are pretty much impossible to save people from, even with insanely high quality care.

0

Also yeah people that came here legally who have been detained absolutely should have due process, I’m not arguing that at all. I’m just saying it’s a complex issue because there are so many illegal immigrants.

-1

Anonymous #2 11w

guys guys the modern SS putting people in horrible living conditions is complex because there’s so many people we want to put on camps. It’s not complex, every ICE agent is a criminal and a traitor.

0

Anonymous #5 11w

Im not even supportive of undocumented immigration but this is the most inhumane and ineffective method possible for reducing its impact. Regardless of ur opinion on illegal immigration, it shouldn’t be hard to agree that the current policy is wrong.

1

Anonymous #2 11w

the point isn't that ICE should have saved him during the rupture. It's that he showed signs of poor health well before the event (wheelchair-bound, confused, hypertensive), and still got medically cleared for a long transfer in the back of a van. The suicides are proof of a pattern of deteriorating mental health. suicide prevention is not actually luxury care... do you still think the conditions are humane? was there anything we did actually agree on or what

1

Anonymous #2 11w

The volume of migrants doesn’t cancel out the government’s responsibility to treat people with due process. If the system can’t handle the numbers without neglect or abuse, then should we go on?

3

Anonymous #6 11w

There could’ve been a million factors why they milled themselves, but I doubt it was because of the ‘inhumane conditions’. Likely they couldn’t handle the thought of being deported, or maybe they have issues to that would’ve been worse to deal with in the country of origin, there’s no way to know so you can’t blame it on ice.

1

Anonymous #6 11w

And I agree with you. The system cannot handle the numbers, so an alternate system needs to be in place to only handle immigration. Pretty much what ICE is doing right now; however, I doubt agree they need more oversight to ensure they are doing everything possible to keep people that don’t deserve to be there out, and to keep people are there healthy and safe.

3

Anonymous #2 11w

common ground is the system overload. If we agreed to extent do humane conditions include due process rights/proper access to medical care, then we’d agree whether conditions are humane. leave defining “humane” up to arguing over semantics, who wants to suffer through more text than necessary doubting the need for more oversight is giving too much benefit of the doubt. ICE investigating itself is a glaring conflict of interest. Im regurgitating an earlier point where cases lead nowhere

1

Anonymous #6 11w

wait but this is also a good common ground to end on, if that’s fair

1

Anonymous #6 11w

like I can’t give you more information and have the response be “let’s not jump to conclusions here” where is your qualifying proof against mine other than your doubts? ICE is innocent until proven guilty? the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard only applies to criminal convictions. the evidence already overwhelmingly shows a pattern of neglect where basic rights are repeatedly denied. it’s a compelling pattern & in policy, we often act on patterns, risk, and harm, not courtroom-level proof

3

Anonymous #6 11w

Especially when court level proof is buried and burned to prevent official actions

2

Anonymous OP 11w

Whine whine whine

3

Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 11w

get me a glass too 🍷

3

No I agree with you, I meant to say ‘do’ instead of doubt’ I’m just saying there’s really no proof inhumane conditions are causing deaths in the detainment centers and it’s a complex issue because the USA really doesn’t have the capacity to give every illegal immigrant a normal trial because it’s been so mismanaged. Mathematically we don’t have the capacity to give them that because the influx is greater than what our system can actually process.

1

Anonymous #2 11w

However; they also deserve that, which makes it very complicated. If I were to choose, I think there should be mass deportations without full trials - just very bare minimum and then you have the ability to appeal if you think something was incorrect. But I’m not an expert in any sense, so idk.

1

Anonymous #2 11w

I was really runnning off the word “doubt”, that’s crazy. also, you say there’s “no proof” inhumane conditions are causing deaths. I’m done with the ‘inhumane’ argument anyways, we don’t agree with what is considered ‘humane.’ But we do have: - Detainee deaths from treatable illnesses - Suicides in segregation cells without adequate mental health care - People denied emergency care until it was too late - Whistleblowers and inspectors repeatedly flagging the same issues

1

Anonymous #2 11w

ik youre not an expert but according to what ive read about it so far, ICE already does that in many cases and it’s led to US citizens being wrongfully detained and families separated with no reunification plan. you don’t need to be an expert to feel that something’s wrong here and since we agree on that, do you want to move on now?

1