Anonymous #1 19w

We’re all humans. We’re a social species who only got as far as we did through cooperation between men and women Any man who doesn’t see women as equal to us isn’t a real man. They’re not even a real human as far as I’m concerned, they’re just dickless little cowards who are so pathetic that they’re threatened by equality

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Anonymous OP 19w

Exactly.

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Anonymous #2 19w

They can actually! Because that’s how the majority of society functions. Why can’t men and women be equal? Why shouldn’t they?

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Anonymous #2 19w

The only people who disagree are the incels and the inbred hicks like yourself (you’re both)

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Anonymous OP 19w

Because in a white supremacist country black men face violence that is also technically gendered that white women don’t face but enjoy the privilege of being white.

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Anonymous #2 19w

You hide behind a screen when you say this because you’re too much of a fucking pussy to say it irl. You KNOW your ideology is fucked and unpopular for a damn good reason, do the rest of the world a favor and shut the fuck up

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Anonymous OP 19w

I’m not an incel. I’m not even a man😂😭. But white women wanting to be grouped in with other women and grouping white men with black and brown men is demonic

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Anonymous #2 19w

That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not men and women should be treated as equals

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Anonymous #2 19w

Oh so you’re just a racist piece of shit then

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Anonymous OP 19w

How am I racist bruh

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Anonymous OP 19w

What do you mean men and women should be treated as equals? White women don’t face structural racism that black and brown men do.

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Anonymous OP 19w

I don’t know why you are so mad just because I questioned how white supremacy benefits white women and men? I am sorry but gender alone cannot be a coherent political grouping. You can argue why I am wrong instead of hurling abuses at me and yes I stand by it unless I am challenged in person or online

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Anonymous #2 19w

You LITERALLY just said that wanting to group different races of the same gender together is demonic. Ofc different demographics have different levels of privilege but why the fuck does that mean we shouldn’t strive for gender equality? Ofc it’s not going to solve everything but it’s completely fucking moronic to act like we should stop striving for equity for even a second

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Anonymous #2 19w

Your rationality here is basically “Solution A only solves problem A and not problem B, so therefore we shouldn’t even try solution A at all” We can’t have true justice without gender equality AND racial equality, dipshit

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Anonymous #2 19w

And this @balkanstobengal on insta explained it very well

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Anonymous #2 19w

You have plenty of valid points about race and gender but the way you say them is incredibly poorly done. If you want to talk intersectionality then say that, but you literally opened with “men and women can’t be equal” and “stop this surface level feminism.” YOU started this bullshit here with your dogshit way of phrasing things You also completely undermine your own point and hurt the cause when you literally strike down people for advocating for gender equality ffs 🤡

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Anonymous OP 19w

I called it surface level feminism because that is what it is ultimately. I did say it’s because grouping all men and all women together is harmful and cannot be done.

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Anonymous #2 19w

this is such a tortured take 😂 yikes dude

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Anonymous #3 19w

How is it a tortured take?

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Anonymous #3 19w

All I’m saying is that gender must be intertwined with class, race, religion and caste to form a coherent category and should not be viewed in isolation

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Anonymous #2 19w

You have valid point but i don’t understand the general idea of what you’re trying to say. It’s all poorly said and just makes you look like a pos tbh…

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Anonymous #2 19w

Ok I think I understand. On that basis i agree

0

Anonymous #2 19w

I have never heard so many good points so disastrously self-undermined by terrible wording. Like watching Superman save someone from a burning building and then fly into a wall and drop them

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Anonymous #2 19w

It’s only harmful for societies that are unequal, but it’s also the only way to achieve equality. We have to work at it together, we can’t raise all sides to the same level separately

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Anonymous #2 19w

patriarchal culture predates white colonialism by several thousand years tho. like pretty much every civilization that’s ever existed has practiced varying levels of patriarchy because empire building requires war, and matriarchal societies are much less likely to send people to their death over land. most pastoralists societies have been patriarchal as well

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Anonymous #2 19w

i get what you’re saying, but i think you should view gender outside of the american lens and view it more globally. gender based oppression is real and can be found in most cultures. gender and race should be viewed as two different spectrums that can be intertwined to determine privilege. your race or ethnicity is a bigger determiner of privilege, but within every race or ethnicity, the man holds more power. black american women are more oppressed than black american men for example

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Anonymous #2 19w

and mena women are more oppressed than mena men. south asian women are more oppressed than south asian men. west african women are more oppressed than west african men. and so on. you simply can't ignore that most societies are patriarchal and have gender based oppression. america is very multiracial and has a racial hierarchy so yes, white women are less oppressed than black men because they are white, and yes they have taken part in oppressing black men historically and currently

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Anonymous #2 19w

but most of the globe is not as race based as america. most countries are homogeneous or have little racial diversity, especially in the eastern hemisphere. because there’s less of a racial dynamic, it’s easier to apply gender hierarchy to most of the world and claim that women are more oppressed than men. i would even apply this claim to the western world, but with the condition that race is a larger determinant of oppression and that gender hierarchy cannot always be directly applied

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Anonymous #6 19w

More like watching Superman save someone and then decide that he shouldn’t save anyone at all since he can’t save everyone in the world simultaneously, so he just puts the person back down and then purposely knocks a building over on top of them

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Anonymous #7 19w

South Asian women are more oppressed with south Asian men is such a blanket statement. Are upper caste women more oppressed than lower caste and Muslim men in India? Nope

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Anonymous #7 19w

Wow worst take ever. You don’t need to have race based hierarchies in different countries but majoritarian groups exist based on ethnic groups and religions also. No these countries are not homogeneous at all.

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Anonymous #7 19w

Clearly you don’t know anything about south Asian countries and how caste based ethnic based and also religions based hierarchies exist. Making such generalised statements about south Asian men and women (which is comprised of so many countries with such diverse groups of people) is more harmful for minority men and women who are facing violence on a day to day basis

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Anonymous #2 19w

“Worst take ever” genuinely shut the fuck up, you literally said that mixing of races was demonic and that I should stop advocating for gender equality Notice how we all agree with you about on all the data? And even on most of the points you’re *trying* to make? It’s not them, it’s YOU. YOU are the one with the dogshit takes here, YOU are the problem (as should be evidenced by all of the other comments and the pushback you’re receiving)

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Anonymous OP 19w

Okay so do you agree with the statement that south Asian women are more oppressed than south Asian men?

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Anonymous #2 19w

Yes, of course. Women are more oppressed than men in just about every single place on earth, South Asia included. What’s your point?

1

Anonymous OP 19w

Dude that’s amazing that all of you disagree with me but that doesn’t make my points invalid. But I think American leftists should start listening to leftists in other countries to understand power dynamics between different groups.

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Anonymous #2 19w

Wow, that’s an awful lot of words for virtually nothing of substance What DOES make your points invalid is the fact that you still have yet to actually explain how that relates to the claims you’re making (and more importantly, why tf that means we shouldn’t strive for gender equality)

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Anonymous OP 19w

I have nothing to say. You guys clearly did not read what I said about upper caste women how generalising south Asian ‘men’ being oppressive to south Asian ‘women’ is harmful. All I’m saying is don’t make blanket statements.

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Anonymous #2 19w

Jesus fucking CHRIST, not a single person here thinks that all men are oppressive in patriarchal societies. We ALL understand that it’s not representative of any demographic as a whole and that it’s usually just a few assholes (plus those who are complicit in sexism) at fault in any given population. We’re saying that societies are more harmful to women ON AVERAGE and in general. What’s so difficult to understand?

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Anonymous #2 19w

That’s also not all you’re saying, you made a LOT of REALLY awful points besides that

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Anonymous OP 19w

I wrote everything in English. Do you not understand simple English or are you so dense that you can’t look past your simplified takes and have to call me stupid and dipshit when I wanted to you to include more nuance to ur take? If anything you have not said anything of substance in any comments or what your actual problems with my statements are.

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Anonymous #2 19w

not every south asian country has the religious diversity of india. some are religiously homogeneous. india also has much more ethnic diversity than other south asian countries. bangladesh for example comprises mostly of bengali people. most indian ethnic groups stay within their regions as well. you will find most punjabis in north india and most tamil in south india

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Anonymous #2 19w

not to single out south asian cultures because patriarchal practices happen everywhere, and they were also burdened with wealth theft during colonialism which brought rougher times for them, but to imply south asian women don’t experience sex based discrimination is asinine. yes higher castes oppress lower castes, but this doesn’t mean practices like arranged marriage, male dowry in non-muslim populations, domestic responsibility put on women, or even the favoring of male children don’t exist

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Anonymous OP 19w

I never said we shouldn’t strive for gender equality. I am asking you to look at systemic gender oppression that can be disproportionately faced by men and women from minority backgrounds into consideration. That means also questioning power that some women of majoritarian groups hold which you clearly don’t want to do since you keep downvoting my comment on south Asian countries as if I said anything wrong there

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Anonymous #2 19w

while these issues are likely exacerbated in poorer populations due to women having less earning potential, you cannot just claim that patriarchy doesn’t exist, same as other societies. all the societies i’ve mentioned (i come from one of these societies), including many more, are patriarchy based. you are going to need to prove that most societies are egalitarian if you want to prove your point. and im not the one downvoting u, others just dont agree w u (3/4)

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Anonymous #2 19w

and you tried to claim patriarchy was a white women invention from the 50s in a screenshot earlier which is just so factually false. i also quite literally earlier explained that people of higher classes can oppress people of lower classes, even if it’s women oppressing men. oppression is not the black and white like you are trying to make it. someone can be a place to oppress others while simultaneously being oppressed

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Anonymous #2 19w

and women of an oppressed race, ethnicity, caste, or religion will always be more oppressed at the end of the day. that doesn’t change. they can still be and are abused, assaulted, controlled, and exploited by men from these same oppressed groups

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Anonymous #7 19w

I never said oppression is black and white. If anything I am literally saying that men oppress women is a very simple generalised take. Also I’m not saying marital rape, domestic abuse and other forms of violence against women is not pervasive amongst all these communities because they are. But there is a difference between interpersonal and intimate violence and systemic violence which are both gendered violence btw. I would prefer if people would include

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Anonymous #2 19w

Which men and women are oppressive towards which men and women instead of men are oppressive towards women

-1

Anonymous #2 19w

In south Asian countries only Sinhala Buddhist women, upper caste Hindu women, Buddhist nationalists MaBaTha women active participants of the Tamil genocide, mob lynching Muslim and Sikh men, and Rohingya genocide. Oppression doesn’t work with men alone. Women from dominant groups take enable it , take part in it and sustain it

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Anonymous #2 19w

Unfortunately patriarchy is upheld by dominant group women themselves because they simultaneously are oppressed by dominant men and also reap the benefits of belonging to the dominant group. They do not look at women and definitely not men from the out groups as people whose rights should be advocated for. Like in India caste hierarchies are held by women and they themselves are against inter caste marriages because they benefit from power they have from their upper caste background

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Anonymous #2 19w

Patriarchy is not a men vs women system. It’s a dominant group kinship system. If you want patriarchy to be dismantled it cannot work if we keep viewing it as a men vs women thing

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Anonymous #2 19w

I myself as a woman agree with everything you said about arranged marriages, male children being favoured and domestic duties being put mostly on women which is sex based discrimination. I also come from a country which disproportionately mob lynches Muslim men , and where systemic police brutality and sexual violence is inflicted on lower caste men. Is this not gendered violence too?

-1

Anonymous #2 19w

Ultimately dominant group women will cry about “women’s” issues but will it never includes the violence minority group women face from majoritarian groups. They turn a blind eye towards it

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Anonymous #7 19w

It doesn’t need to be. In Pakistan Shia Muslim men even though they are technically Muslim face blasphemy charges , sectarian violence and targeted bombings. I agree that Bangladesh is ethnically more homogeneous than India or Pakistan but Hindu men still are lynched

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Anonymous #2 19w

Yeah except this post wasn’t about ANY of that. It was purely about incels getting mad over equal rights. You’re interrupting a conversation about apples and demanding everyone talk about oranges instead

1

Anonymous OP 19w

You seem more committed to downvoting all my comments without even wanting to contribute anything valuable to this conversation than to your initial comment about incels and the manosphere itself. Even if I strayed from the topic doesn’t mean what I said doesn’t make sense 😂

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Anonymous #2 19w

No, it’s your incoherent rambling and your incredibly poor way of structuring sentences and arguments that mean it doesn’t make sense. I’m also not contributing anything valuable because wtf of substance even is there to respond to? Especially when it’s MY post about something completely different? I don’t have to entertain these random ass tangents of yours at all in the first place. If you want a better response, give me something that I can actually respond to Hope this helped 👍

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Anonymous #2 19w

yes these examples exhibit violence towards men, however i would not call it gendered violence. i would call it islamophobia and classism. they’re not being lynched, policed, or even SAed because they are men. it’s happening because they are muslim or because they’re dalits. muslim and dalit women are not exempt from the violence you’re mentioning either. you’re talking about something outside of gender oppression

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Anonymous #2 19w

and op has a point abt how what you’re talking about isn’t very related to the post. while what you’re talking about is important and these forms of oppression should be talked about, it doesn’t negate that incels are very misogynistic and seek to subjugate women which is what the og post is about. this issue affects more than white women, it affects all women because all types of men can be redpilled

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Anonymous #2 19w

and patrilineage is what’s kinship based and is just a feature of patriarchy. a patriarchy is a social system where men hold more power and control than women, but you obviously need to read inbetween the lines to know which men are able to oppress which women because most societies have more than just one hierarchy. that should already be known. the people holding the most power and influence are still men (of the dominant group) which is what makes it a patriarchy

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Anonymous #7 19w

This post was literally about some loser who slid into my DMs and went on a sexist, ableist tirade because I mentioned equal rights for women, not once did I bring up race (or even ableism when it was directly related) so idfk where #2 is pulling all of this from 😭

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Anonymous #2 19w

i’ll say it again as i’ve said it several times now: lower status men are oppressed by both higher status men and women. i never claimed systemic, non-gendered oppression doesn’t exist. it still doesn’t change the fact that the elite class is dominated by men. yes, many women involved in elite and higher classes uphold patriarchy because they benefit from their place in society. but they shouldn’t be overshadowing all the women who aren’t rich, high status, or the “right” religion

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Anonymous #2 19w

and depending on the society, many of those women can face losing their status by going against the system in place. literally no one is claiming that non-dominant group men don’t face oppression. people just know that it’s not the topic of the post and are able to read between lines. a muslim man being lynched by hindu nationalists has nothing to do with incels, and i’m saying this as a muslim woman

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Anonymous #2 19w

the oppression of muslims in india and europe is important to bring light to. but you’re getting mad at people for being against red pill ideology and claiming men and women are equal. and you’re using important topics like oppression against muslims, dalits, or black americans as a gotcha against the og post which doesn’t make any sense. i think many people here understand gender oppression is not the only form of oppression that exists, but gendered oppression is what was being discussed

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Anonymous OP 19w

yeah i don’t get what they’re arguing against. it’s like if i talk about oppression against black americans, and then someone gets mad at me because they think oppression against immigrants somehow cancels out oppression against black americans because some african immigrants are facing xenophobia from some black americans. one type of oppression doesn’t cancel the other, they actually add together. i feel like they’re not understanding multiple forms of oppression coexist

6