Anonymous #2 1d

What about it being based on moral consistency and valuing human beings? Also it’s Catholic college students why are you surprised Catholics exist

-6

Anonymous #3 1d

you’re right! we should provide people with greater access to contraception, comprehensive sex education, livable wages, free access to healthcare for all, affordable housing, harsher punishments and higher conviction rates of sex offenders and abusers of women and children, etc which will actually decrease abortion rates and save the lives of women experiencing medical emergencies by allowing them to make that choice with their doctor and their god, right?

11

Anonymous #3 1d

or do you not support human rights?

11

Anonymous #3 1d

they can exist and simply practice their own religion without forcing it on others

16

Anonymous OP 1d

Sure. Do you support making it illegal to kill innocent unborn human beings

-4

Anonymous OP 1d

Making it illegal to kill humans isn’t forcing religion on others.

3

Anonymous #3 1d

if you’re using emotionally charged language to ask if i support banning abortion, then no. pregnancy is complex which i imagine you are most likely a man who has no experience in the medical field and have not been paying attention to the women dying because they can’t get care. if we use other methods of reduction, we address abortions that occur do to economic reasons, sexual violence, and not wanting children while allowing women who do want kids to have them safely

11

Anonymous OP 1d

1. That’s just what happens in an abortion procedure. You kill the fetus, who is a human being in an early stage of development. Using nicer words won’t change that. 2. I‘m a woman and studying bio and premed. Do you have any medical experience? You must if you‘re so confident in claiming i don’t have any.

-4

Anonymous OP 1d

Do you support human rights for all human beings?

-3

Anonymous #3 1d

it already is illegal to kill humans whose survival does not depend on being physically attached to another and will die immediately if detached. unless you’re referring to the women being denied care in emergency rooms across the country, in which case that’s apparently completely fine

12

Anonymous OP 1d

That’s a convenient asterisk you have there. First of all, it’s not illegal to abort the unborn past viability, which is at 20 weeks. At least half of US states allow abortion past this point. So that’s already a lie. Do you think being dependent on another human or not is what determines if you should be killed? Even an infant may need to be physically attached to its mother, at least temporarily, to be breastfed and survive without starving. Medical malpractice is bad, it’s already illegal.

-4

Anonymous #3 1d

i’m actually a senior in nursing school finishing up my final semester of clinical rotations before my preceptorship which has actually included an obgyn rotation. so not only am i in medicine, i’m the one actually wiping patient’s asses and crying with them while your profession (that you haven’t even begun school for might i add) walks rounds, gives orders, and leaves. leaving women without care as they get sepsis from a non-viable fetus is actually what kills an innocent person

8

Anonymous OP 1d

Good for you. You ever experienced a miscarriage before? My mom has. My sibling was lost in a miscarriage. Would you cry with me because their life was lost? Also abortion is always allowed to save the life of the mother.

-3

Anonymous #3 1d

do you know who actually gets abortions past viability? because if you did any actual research on the topic behind “it’s a baby” you would know that second trimester abortions are incredibly rare as it is and almost always happen in a medical emergency. and an infant can be given a bottle dude. this argument is incredibly weak, unless anyone other than the woman gestating the fetus can take over for her that’s not a rational argument

10

Anonymous #3 1d

and doctors aren’t committing malpractice because they want to or because they’re simply lazy or negligent, they’re being forced to wait until the situation is so severe that the law allows them to intervene which is often too late

11

Anonymous #3 1d

Good, abortions should stay legs

14

Anonymous #3 1d

Legal**

13

Anonymous #3 1d

You didn’t answer

5

Anonymous #1 1d

Yes I did lol, see my other comment where I agree with their conditions. Now if you’re finished lying could you answer my question?

-3

Anonymous #3 1d

You didn’t ask me anything. Ask me directly so I know what you’re asking

8

Anonymous #1 1d

Do you support human rights for all human beings? You know the question I asked in the comment you just fucking responsed to?

-3

Anonymous #3 1d

you have to be completely ignorant to not know that in practice an exception to save the life of the mother is not so simple. the people making these laws don’t have medical backgrounds (like you) so they will go after doctors who provide abortions in these situations who provide them too early because they don’t understand medicine. i can give a list of names of women who have died because of these bans. they don’t work in practice and just saying they do doesn’t change that

7

Anonymous OP 1d

Then give me an example of a doctor who was attacked for providing a medically necessary abortion.

-1

Anonymous #3 1d

Yes. Is it good or bad to take away autonomy from innocent humans to make them do what you want them to do politically, at the cost of their own finances and safety?

6

Anonymous OP 1d

If no one can take over for a breastfeeding mother does that justify her killing her child? And if you’re going to claim that most people getting abortions past the second trimester only do so for „medically necessary“ reasons I’d like to see a source for that. An actual survey or study please

-4

Anonymous OP 1d

If the law is the problem why does Poland have the third lowest maternal mortality rate in the entire world with a strict abortion ban?

-4

Anonymous #1 1d

It’s bad. making it illegal to kill innocent unborn human beings and taking away their autonomy is hence wronh. Glad we agree

-1

Anonymous #3 1d

and as for the miscarriage, so did mine, and it’s sad. i also lost a brother to suicide. one that i held in my arms, laughed with, cried with, and knew intimately because he wasn’t just an idea. that was much worse for all of us than the miscarriage, my mom didn’t linger on the miscarriage nearly as long as losing my living brother? we’ve all been destroyed. i much rather a family deal with having to have an abortion to save the mother’s life than to lose both and never recover.

5

Anonymous OP 1d

Is it sad enough for you to outlaw the killing of children their same age?

-1

Anonymous OP 1d

And i agree that it’s better to have an abortion if the life of the mother is at risk. Hence why all abortion bans make exceptions for that. I just don’t think that justifies having no restrictions on killing little children the same exact age as my sibling.

-1

Anonymous #3 1d

“You are born with them” Fetus’ by definition are unborn. Try again. So you agree outlawing abortion would be the government forcing innocent people to risk their finances and bodies for potlucks agendas, got it! And so why do you want to endorse something you know is bad?

9

Anonymous OP 1d

Look I’m probably not going to be able to change your mind. But can you at least try to see where I‘m coming from? Can you understand why I don’t think it should be legal to kill human beings like my sibling, or ppl like my friends who were born at 7 months when abortion is completely legal at that stage in Michigan? Is it such a terrible thing that I think they should have the same legal protections as you and me?

-1

Anonymous #3 1d

have you ever heard of formula? 🤯 ikr. crazy. and i apologize, i was typing quickly as i was in a rush and meant to type third (which is my bad) since second trimester abortions also cover the before 20 week period pretty significantly starting around week 13.

10

Anonymous #3 1d

Taking away consent of innocent people btw sounds very rape-y but apparently that’s something you’re for.

9

Anonymous #3 1d

i am not familiar with the verbiage that poland uses in their laws. i would love a chance to look into poland further but notice how in the us, we have our highest maternal mortality rate in states with strict abortion bans. in fact it’s so bad, they stopped reporting on them in texas before the midterms

6

Anonymous #1 1d

political*

3

Anonymous #3 1d

i can see where you’re coming from, i just believe you are completely misguided. i can provide you with data that shows maternal mortality increasing in states that have abortion bans compared to before and after roe as well as in states where it is legal because poland is an anomaly, not the standard. i think your views are idealistic, not representative of the country and culture in which we live or the medical field as a whole

1

Anonymous #3 1d

i much rather women to not have unwanted pregnancies by order of prevention and not bans which, in practice, are killing people. i want kids to grow up with both their parents and considering the bans haven’t even decreased our national abortion rates, i think it’s time to try other methods

1

Anonymous OP 1d

I think the US is an outlier. Malta is the same as Poland, total ban, extremely low maternal mortality, Andorra has the same or better compared to surrounding countries, Chile has the lowest maternal mortality in Latin America & allows abortion only for health or rape. As a whole countries with lower maternal mortality rates compared to the US also have more restrictive laws. Germany bans it at 14 weeks and only with strict counseling. Belarus does as well (second lowest in the world).

0

Anonymous OP 1d

So if you have do many outliers, maybe your scientific model isn’t very good. If you look at the US it seems to me like maternal mortality is more closely correlated to poverty rates. Pro life states are usually poorer, and had higher mortality pre Dobbs as well and a much rougher time with covid. When it comes to PC states like Arizona they also have incredibly high maternal mortality.

0

Anonymous OP 1d

Abortion bans did decrease abortions in the states that banned it. It’s also a matter of principle. The unborn deserve legal rights and protections

-1

Anonymous #3 1d

Not gonna answer

4

Anonymous #3 1d

?*

4

Anonymous OP 1d

Notice how in the US, those are the states with the highest poverty rates and worst times with COVID, which they had pre Dobbs as well.

-2

Anonymous #1 1d

So they’re not human rights then, if not all humans have them. You don’t believe in human rights for all humans.

0

Anonymous #3 1d

Not an answer. Try again

4

Anonymous #1 1d

Taking away the life of innocent ppl without their consent is quite rape-y

-1

Anonymous #1 1d

You won’t properly answer my questions so why would I answer yours?

-1

Anonymous #1 1d

Is it good or bad to take away autonomy from innocent humans eg by killing them? Yes it is. Hence why i don’t support abortion. Why do you support something you know is wrong? You don’t believe that all human beings deserve human rights, nor that taking away autonomy of innocent humans is bad, if you support abortion.

-1

Anonymous #3 1d

I did. You just don’t like what “human rights” actually means lol. Go ahead. I’m waiting. Why do you endorse something you know is morally bad? Something that in many logical sense , resembles the same mindset that rapists use to hurt innocent people.

4

Anonymous #1 1d

Human rights are inherent to humanity, yes? So why don’t unborn humans get them? It’s an arbitrary line. Also, the declaration of the rights of the child says that children are entitled to protections *before* birth as well. I endorse letting children live. That isn’t morally bad. You agreed taking away innocent people’s autonomy is bad, killing them is part of that. Why do you endorse something you know is bad?

-1

Anonymous #3 1d

I didn’t ask if you endorse letting kids live. Try again. Your worldview is apparently destroyed by a singular question lol.

4

Anonymous #3 1d

first, poverty isn’t the reason they have risen in these states after dobbs by an almost collective 10%. i never said legalizing abortion immediately means they have an objectively low maternal mortality rate, but banning abortion does at large increase it. not only that, but women in poverty also can’t leave to seek abortion care while wealthier women can, so obviously we’re going to see a sharper rise in states where women are living in poverty at higher rates

4

Anonymous #1 1d

I answered your question. Your question was why do I endorse something I „know is morally bad“. The answer is i don’t. That would‘ve been a better question to ask me when I was pro choice lmao Why won’t you answer my question? How do you think you’re destroying my worldview exactly?

0

Anonymous #3 1d

I didn’t ask if you did or didn’t. You acknowledged it was bad in the answer prior, so plausible deniability for that goes away. Abortion is a political topic. You want humans to have their autonomy removed for a political reason (abortion) at the cost of those humans finances and their safety. So try again. Answer this time Lester the Molester

4

Anonymous OP 1d

Ok give me the source for that then

0

Anonymous #1 1d

Pretty bold of you to claim I’m a rapist when you’re the one saying unborn babies should be killed and should have their autonomy removed. Where did I say that abortion bans are morally bad?

0

Anonymous #3 1d

i would also like to point out that women are already being charged for having miscarriages in this country. how do you think further abortion bans are going to affect this? if a woman isn’t eating well, doesn’t seek prenatal care, struggling with addiction, disposing of miscarriages incorrectly, etc. all can result in miscarriage and many have resulted in real life charges. we have turned to madness because we don’t want to take care of our women through preventative models

6

Anonymous #1 1d

Hold on are you ppl actually so fucking stupid and pedantic that you looked at a typo and built a whole argument around it? 😭 also I suppose this implies you think making it illegal to kill innocent humans and robbing them of their autonomy is morally wrong

0

Anonymous OP 1d

Can you give me an example of this

0

Anonymous #3 1d

brittany poolaw was arrested and sentenced for methamphetamine usage during her pregnancy after a miscarriage despite a possible genetic anomaly and placental abruption also present, moira akers who experienced a stillbirth at home in which prosecutors used her not seeking prenatal care during her trial in which she was convicted, brittany watts was arrested and charged for flushing fetal remains. there are many more but here’s examples of the ones that i mentioned that have resulted in charges

0

Anonymous OP 1d

…Moira Akers was in Maryland. Where abortion is legal at all stages

-1

Anonymous #3 1d

first, alabama, oklahoma, indiana, mississippi, and georgia among others all have similar cases. none of the women ive named are the “only ones” this has happened to, so if your argument is that only 1 of the 3 just that i listed (out of hundreds) lives in a state where it’s legal, that doesn’t help your case. there’s a history to women facing charges and convictions for actual miscarriages or stillbirths in pregnancies they didn’t seek to end was my point, and bans will exacerbate just that.

1

Anonymous #3 1d

honestly neither mind is going to be changed here and i have to work tomorrow where i will actually be caring for patients so im going to bed. if you ever make it to med school graduation, i hope you’re able to see the people this is hurting and understand you can oppose abortion while understanding that our country does so little to help new or prospective mothers through prevention, and leaving complex medical issues in the hands of men who dont understand medicine is just asking for disaster

1

Anonymous OP 1d

If ur argument is abortion bans are causing this then why bring up that it clearly can happen in states where it’s entirely legal. That’s an entirely separate issue from abortion bans then and I’ll need more systematic evidence that it’s being exacerbated

0

Anonymous OP 1d

I would never intentionally hurt another human being. It violates the Hippocratic oath. Again. Why I oppose abortion

-1

Anonymous #1 1d

honestly i hope they do. either way, im finishing my nighttime routine and i don’t feel like arguing into infinity with a literal pre-med student so im done regardless.

5

Anonymous #3 1d

because they will and have used this strategy also, the maryland example was used to prove the woman would kill her child after birth because they claimed they were born alive. they’ll absolutely use the same thing (and they already have) to prove they intentionally caused a miscarriage. i’m not doing your research for you anymore tonight, im headed to bed and if you don’t want to end up like the 90% of premed students who never end up becoming doctors, you probably should too.

0

Anonymous OP 1d

By that logic we should legalize infanticide to prevent women from being falsely accused of killing their neonates if they had a stillbirth. Also no offense but if you’re the one making claims like „abortion bans cause an increase in maternal mortality“ or „abortion bans exacerbate women being falsely accused of crimes“ it’s on you to provide evidence.

1