Anonymous stethosc0pe 15w

This kind of stuff doesn’t appeal to the young white male. Vibes and persona reign stronger than policy for a lot of them. Steps like this are how you get your foot in the door before pushing stuff like you mentioned.

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Anonymous OP 15w

no reason you can’t do both…and it’s not like Bernie is the prototypical alpha male and yet they respect him more than the establishment dems even if they don’t agree with him on many things

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Anonymous OP 15w

oh i’m not opposed to better vibes lol but style and substance work hand-in-hand. Trump’s machismo is largely flash, but his key policies (tariffs, deportations) are what make “OOH RAH LET’S MESS UP THOSE COUNTRIES/MIGRANTS” vibes feel genuine if Dems or a left alternative has the same corporate-friendly, centrist platform with a gym bro reskin, everyone (esp white guys) will see it as phony bs

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Anonymous #3 15w

They may respect him, but none of them are gravitating towards a person like Bernie

6

Anonymous OP 15w

many did though? Rogan literally endorsed Sanders for President in 2020 just difficult to build momentum when the Dem establishment is so threatened by “real strength is standing up to powerful corporations and billionaires” vibes

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Anonymous stethosc0pe 15w

Going to have to agree to disagree with you on this one. The last time a majority of white men voted for a democrat or were enthusiastic about one was 1964. The gains for him in 2020 were basically negligible.

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Anonymous cheesepussy 15w

In hard times people gravitate towards strength. A well oiled governmental system composed of professional bureaucrats doesn’t project strength like a strongman like Trump does

1

Anonymous #5 15w

If we’re talking about physical appearance, the way this post is, Trump is a horrible example to use for that lmao. But I agree with your point in terms of personality/vibes

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Anonymous #8 15w

If there really were 20 million illegals you’d notice it that’s a HUGE number

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Anonymous #5 15w

Its pretty noticeable, my family is from a small beach town that is predominantly white & black population w/ the minority being Mexican. Everywhere i turn now its South American & African immigrants and they dominate the local job economy

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Anonymous #11 15w

Lot of words for saying they are sexist

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Anonymous #3 15w

Your living proof of why men aren’t aligning left, if they excuse any opinion not in your single rigid ideology then they’re socially exiled. Thanks for proving my point

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Anonymous OP 15w

maybe. but just look at what Johnson and the Dems were doing policy-wise in 1964. Surely that stuff affected the vibes, no?

3

yes even the corporate shill dems are miles better than the republicans on these things. nearly all of them backed the pro act which unions had been agitating for for a while

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Anonymous cheesepussy 15w

I feel like not only is this attitude incorrect, really counterproductive to winning, and also just wrong. Not believing in people and considering them to be inherently dumb is not good foundation. Is someone who believes their followers to be stupid really going to be a good leader? And maybe, you’re like “well screw being a good leader, we just win / stop conservatives from winning.” then there’s your problem. That’s why you (we) lose.

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Anonymous #12 15w

I didn’t say anything about campaign strategy lol it’s just a fact that most Americans are profoundly fucking dumb

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Anonymous cheesepussy 15w

I wasn’t implying you did, I just was using that to illustrate what I was saying. I understand your frustration, don’t get me wrong, but I think this framing is damaging and only divides us more. I just feel like treating people like they are dumb overall is not good for a leftist movement. It’s like, ya gotta have love for people and believe in the goodness of people! if the default is everyone is dumb, I just feel like that isn’t really grounds for the kindof of movement we need.

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It is true though. There wouldn’t have been a 14 point shift to (R) by young men 18-35. The Democratic Party has spent the last decade vilifying men just for existing. Also education is not a selling point for the working class anymore. Why would they occur $60k+ in debt/expenses when they can just go to trade school for 1 year for $2k+ and earn more than most college grads upon graduating. (And no debt)

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Anonymous #12 15w

I didn’t say I don’t believe in the goodness of people, I just think they’re morons. Including a lot of other leftists. But that doesn’t mean I think leaders should treat them that way, you know? Just keep it in mind.

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Anonymous cheesepussy 15w

Idk maybe im being a little pedantic. I don’t think we fundamentally disagree, I just don’t like the vibes of calling people dumb, because I feel it doesn’t capture the unfair aspects of society that contribute to that being the case. It rubs me the wrong way, but that’s just how I am ig. Sorry for being kindof aggro earlier though, this is just one of those things I’m kinda sensitive on.

1