Anonymous #2 1w

exactly what i was going for

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Anonymous #1 1w

im arguinf for pro choice lolol

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Anonymous OP 1w

It’s upon pro-choice Christians to spread this argument as far and wide as possible

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Anonymous #2 1w

the argument that needs to be spread by every christian is separation of church and state. we are and should remain a secular nation no matter what extremists and ideologues say

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Anonymous #3 1w

While that is true, that argument has proven to be less effective in the current political climate. Christians must spread this to plant a seed of doubt as to why these extremists believe what they do. Only then will they be more open to a secular society.

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Anonymous #2 1w

that's what led us here friend. it's a typical example of backfire and why we don't argue with nazis either. it's an automatic loss because you've legitimized their arguments

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Anonymous #2 1w

you cannot reason somebody out of a position they did not reason themselves into. your "seed of doubt" doesn't take root in the logical inconsistencies of their minds

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Anonymous #4 1w

The Bible is buns bro

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Anonymous OP 1w

I think they on the same side as you, it’s ridiculous that not only pro-lifers trying to make laws based on ancient religion but also they not even following the religion correctly

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Anonymous #6 1w

Seems like a poorly written book then

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Anonymous #7 1w

You guys believe what you want to believe just know that these guys are wrong about the Bible. You can hate it if you want but the Bible has never been in support of abortion. What a lot of modern christians claim is Christianity is a social club, without any actual doctrine and that bends to whatever changing social norms. The Bible is not the textbook for secularism.

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Anonymous #6 1w

Do you know what bitter water is?

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Anonymous #2 1w

Yes just because there were practices for it doesn’t mean they were justified. Prostitution has also always existed that doesn’t mean that it is promoted in the Bible.

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Anonymous #6 1w

This was done by the Israelites…

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Anonymous #7 1w

We have an educated genius on our hands 😜😜heheh buns so quirky

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Anonymous #2 1w

The Israelites also worshipped Baal they did many thing God did not like. They were often destroyed because of their sins that being one of them.

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Anonymous #3 1w

Fair enough. Maybe I am indeed falling into the idealism that led us here instead of focusing on the material fight for human rights. Arguments are important but ceding ground is a poor way of going about fighting for your position. Maybe this point can be used in conjunction with other arguments so it doesn’t have this effect

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Anonymous #6 1w

Read the actual verse dude. God himself commands Moses to tell the Israelites to do this abortive ritual. Have you even read the book you want everyone to live by?

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Anonymous #2 1w

Have you read Jeremiah 1:5 and cite me the verse if you’re so sure, even if it was at one point in Mosaic law Christ fulfilled the covenant. That means that certain laws are no longer required of us that’s why christians aren’t bound to a Kosher diet or circumsicion. We live by Christ’s law and he famously said it is better to tie a millstone around your neck than to hurt my little children.

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Anonymous #6 1w

Numbers 5:11-31

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Anonymous #6 1w

A couple things. First, this verse you’re citing was directed at Jeremiah, not every Israelite and even if it were, it can be true and you can still be pro-choice. Second, you’re using an Old Testament verse to discredit another Old Testament verse. Who decides which is relevant and which isn’t? Jesus sure didn’t lay out what all to ignore.

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Anonymous #6 1w

So what laws are right and what are wrong though? It seems like people just pick and choose. Were the Christian’s who owned slaves in the south right? They killed children. Were the Christian Spanish settlers who conquered American right? They killed children. Are the Christian’s who support Israel right? They’re killing children, and if you only create laws to when you want to prove an argument, what is the point of Christianity as a whole?

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Anonymous #7 1w

Christians are by no means sinless, we commit horrible sins just like everyone else the only thing that differentiates Christians from anyone else is the fact that we seek repentance from Jesus Christ for our terrible actions.

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Anonymous #6 1w

That didn’t answer the questions we asked.

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Anonymous #2 1w

Ok a few responses first of all do you really believe Jeremiah is the only one God knew while he was in the room he is all knowing. Second of all I read the verses you quoted in numbers and read a few different interpretations from Bible scholars. The actual words used are "Make your belly swell and your Thigh rot" there is an active debate on whether or not this means miscarriage. It is also said that there is no effect if the woman is innocent meaning with her Husband’s child.

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Anonymous #6 1w

I believe that the context is important in the verse and that it wasn’t likely meant to be used to talk about all individuals. And I think that the ambiguity on if it is representative of a miscarriage should cause you to reconsider your opinion. If it was so clear cut that abortion is always wrong, then it should seem that way in your infallible text.

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Anonymous #6 1w

So none of the rules in the Bible matter if you ask Jesus for forgiveness? Then how are you against abortion if you can just ask for forgiveness after you do it? What is the point of any of the rules in the Bible? Why tf are any of these being seriously discussed on a politics thread?

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Anonymous #7 1w

Because the root of many people’s opposition to Abortion is that it is inherently morally wrong which stems from a position inspired by a religious understanding of how life is defined. You don’t have to agree with it by any means but it’s how a lot of people feel in terms of this issue.

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Anonymous #6 1w

Gotcha, but just to be clear you’re saying the Bible in itself doesn’t say anything specifically about abortion being wrong because none of the rules in the Bible matter if you ask for forgiveness correct? It’s a personal opinion to think abortion is bad.

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Anonymous #7 1w

How am I against murder then if it can be forgiven or theft or anything else right. Sin is sin it’s wrong, if you don’t repent of it you face damnation repentance means active change from sin. If you sin without repentance there are severe consequences, to commit sin over and over is not repentance you can only be redeemed if you actually mean it.

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Anonymous #7 1w

Wrong bud I listed like 4 verses already. I’m not gonna argue this forever but if you really have a problem with it take it up with the Catholic Church the Orthodox Church and the Oriental Orthodox Churches.

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Anonymous #6 1w

Ok so how do you pick and choose what rules to follow and what rules to not follow? I asked that before and your answer was that you just have to ask for forgiveness, which is why I related that defense to abortion which is what the argument was about. Why is it ok for you to wear mixed fabrics, but not ok for someone to have an abortion? If you’re going to judge morality by a book it seems like you should have some well defined lines for what is moral and what isnt.

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Anonymous #6 1w

And you even defended past and current Christians who committed atrocities. My question is simple, do you think they were following the Bible and will get into heaven just because they asked for forgiveness?

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Anonymous #7 1w

Look at the official doctrines of the Catholic Church if you want an answer the whole list of what Mosaic Covenant was fulfilled by Christ is talked about it’s like 500 different things but effectively I follow the moral law of the old covenant but the culturally specific ones to the Jewish people.

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Anonymous #6 1w

*Not the culturally specific ones.

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Anonymous #7 1w

No many of them will go to Hell if they were only Christians in name and continually did evil while claiming to follow God, you have to have a change in your life or at least at the very end sincerely repent for all of the evil in your life and mean it. Anyone can be forgiven but forgiveness means change look at Paul if you want to know what I mean.

0

You can be both

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Anonymous #6 1w

Abortion isn’t explicitly mentioned anywhere in the Mosaic Covenant though… that at least a system of morality though, my biggest issue with the Bible is that so much of it is just up to interpretation. Like I’m sure many of the people you claimed are “going to hell” thought they were following the Bible perfectly. How can we truly be sure that modern Christian’s are following Gods true teachings? We are going to have to agree to disagree, but can you at least see where I am coming from?

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Anonymous #7 1w

Look I get what you’re saying but there’s also a nature to the law I’ll agree to disagree. I do think it’s worth saying though that all major churches outside of the fringe Protestant sects of America generally condemn most if not all cases of abortion. My point is that just because people break the rules does not mean they don’t exist. You don’t have to agree like I said but I and a large number of other Christians do not believe abortion is justified by the nature of what Jesus says.

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