Anonymous #1 5w

there’s so many reasons for someone to get an abortion ppl try to act like this is an easy issue when it’s just not like you could be dying and they still might deny you which could either also kill the newborn or leave it without a parent. it’s genuine cruelty to have the government control reproductive rights like it’s property to have regulation laws over.

41

only an uneducated man would actually say this anonymously and mean it

22

Anonymous #3 4w

we don’t get them because we want them. it is reproductive health. saying you’re “hoping” for it is not helpful to our cause and can be misinterpreted

25

have you *seen* an adoption center recently

21

Anonymous #1 4w

no because i think i would be a good mother, but getting pregnant would genuinely make me suicidal

10

so the foster care system actually places a lot of emphasis on reuniting kids with their parents, and chances are if someone is surrendering their newborn, they will not be reunited. this leaves them with a 25% chance of being adopted, otherwise, they age out and lack education and work experience. foster care isn’t this magical system that takes amazing care of all children and makes sure they all get adopted. a lot of them live their childhoods bouncing from house to house or in state custody

23

Anonymous #13 4w

and before you come at me with the “well it’s better than being killed” is it? is an unpredictable and unstable childhood helpful for development? no. is a lack of stability in relationships healthy for a child? fuck no. are those kids getting the mental health care and therapy they need? no. are they being set up for success if they age out? absolutely not. we have a lot of work to do before we can reasonably offer foster care/adoption in lieu of giving birth. and that doesn’t even consider -

21

Anonymous #13 4w

- the inherent risks of pregnancy and childbirth that people want to avoid for a number of reasons.

14

Anonymous #13 4w

Still better than

-8

Anonymous #3 4w

*Hoping* for 10 abortions is wild

-6

Anonymous #14 4w

I grew up in foster care after being birthed by a 13 year old girl and I would taken never having existing over what I went thru. Screw you.

14

Anonymous #16 4w

Sorry to hear that. Glad you’re living

-6

Anonymous #15 4w

‘tis a joke, a bit of dark woke if you will

10

Anonymous #10 4w

exactly. its like saying i hope i have a bad period

3

Anonymous #17 4w

my periods are so bad they make me borderline anemic from the blood loss 😪 i’d take an abortion over that any day

4

Anonymous #14 4w

Oh you’re a pos through and through huh

3

Anonymous #18 4w

If pos means taking into consideration other lives that will be negatively impacted, then yes, I am a pos.

-3

Anonymous #14 4w

nah it's how you value misery over women's health

5

Anonymous #11 4w

Not always misery, you won’t know until afterwards. Sorry to say, I value human life no matter its stage in development.

-2

Anonymous #11 4w

The only people who value misery are sadists. I am not a sadist.

-1

Anonymous #14 4w

Pregnancy is dangerous, I’d much rather my wife live than a fucking fetus. I’d rather children not be born than be born into families who’d hate them, abandon them, etc, bc they couldn’t properly provide for them.

3

Anonymous #14 4w

you value the unborn life over the woman carrying that life. the person who’s been on this earth for decades with their own life is less of value to you than something that doesn’t even have a name or birth certificate. bruh.

5

Anonymous #3 4w

Valuing the human life which is currently developing does not equate to devaluing the life that it remains in. Don’t know where you’re getting that.

1

Anonymous #18 4w

Except you don’t know that, do you? But if you’re going by risk of death, you should stop driving your car then. Get rid of your firearm, stop using electricity in your house, do you know much voltage is passed through? If you’re having consented intercourse, why aren’t you protected?

-1

Anonymous #14 4w

that’s exactly what you’re doing by being anti abortion tho. i think of the many cases where the woman was dying by continuing a harmful pregnancy and wasn’t able to secure access to an abortion because of the anti abortion state laws and ended up dead because of them. it may not be the intention, but it’s the inevitable conclusion of being against abortions and reproductive healthcare.

1

Anonymous #3 4w

Who said I was anti-abortion? If there’s very clear and present danger that your life will have an extremely high chance of being lost over birth, then it’ll be a consideration. It should be done in absolute emergencies and nothing else.

-1

Anonymous #3 4w

If you mind, do you know any specific case?

1

Anonymous #14 4w

1) equating humans to objects is never a reliable comparison, especially when discussing human life 2) people have the right to not purchase a car or to sell their car at any given time if they don’t want to use it for safety reasons 3) people have the right to not purchase a firearm or get rid of/destroy their firearm for safety reasons or any other reason 4) you need to pass an exam or background check to own a car or gun; you don’t need one to birth a kid or raise one

3

Anonymous #14 4w

5) you usually can’t own a car or gun unless you consciously pick it, pick which one you want, and decide to pay for it; pregnancy is not transactional in a similar way 6) not all birth control is reliable in terms of protection, just how not all gun legislation is reliable in terms of gun violence protection. you do what you can, shit happens and it can be tragic.

3

Anonymous #13 4w

The only reason that was given was that pregnancy is dangerous, and the end result might suck. None of these collide with that.

-1

Anonymous #13 4w

That’s not a valid reason to make the drastic decision, though. We shouldn’t treat these conceptions as mistakes to be erased, nor should we justify it with something that doesn’t exist, like the future, especially an uncertain one.

-1

Anonymous #14 4w

no no, those are your words. if pregnancy is so dangerous, stop driving, owning guns, using electricity, etc. and i’m telling you that is a logical fallacy. these are not comparable for the sole reason that you can back out of a car or firearms purchase at any time, or stop paying your electric bill at any time to have it cut off, and you’re not stuck with it if you don’t actually want it. if you’re pregnant with no access to abortion, you’re stuck birthing a kid. not comparable. next.

5

Anonymous #14 4w

It’s happened time and time again man. And don’t strawman me. We’re talking about pregnancy. Why don’t YOU take care of these children, you help these people being forced to give birth. Give money, clothes, etc. But you won’t, bc you are pro birth. You don’t care about what happens to the child after, you only care about controlling what others do with their bodies to satisfy your own beliefs. Whether a woman chooses to get an abortion is her right. And it will never be anyone else’s.

3

Anonymous #18 4w

Regardless of how I respond does not invalidate the point. Whether or not I do something has zero weight. No need for the ad hominem. The only reason abortion is a morel dilemma is if both parties (being the mother and unborn) are allotted human value. If you are quick to choose the former you have to actively and directly devalue the other party. So no, this isn’t “her body”. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen, because as I stated I do think there are scenarios where it will be a consideration, but

0

Anonymous #14 4w

it means I’m assessing the situation with both individuals in mind.

1

Anonymous #14 4w

Let me ask you, what moral standard are you using?

1

Anonymous #14 4w

tbh yes i value a grown conscious human being over a fetus. if her life in is jeopardy or she doesn’t want to continue a pregnancy that could have severe physiological consequences, that’s her prerogative. i don’t want to force anyone to carry out an unwanted pregnancy that could end with disastrous consequences for both parties, it’s best to end it before it gets to that point. imagine spending 9 months having nutrients and energy syphoned from you because the govt refuse to grant an abortion.

2

Anonymous #14 4w

the standard of minding my own fucking business, not using my personal, moral, or religious values to shame others, and letting people access the medical care they need for whatever reason they may need it

3

Anonymous #3 4w

“Could end with disastrous consequences”. It also…could not. If it’s extremely likely that this results in death, then it is a consideration

0

Anonymous #13 4w

Well there you go, all you had to say was you don’t believe it is worthy of human value. You actively choosing about whether or not it is valuable is you minding business, btw. But do you have a name for that moral standard or do you just add onto it along the way?

0

Anonymous #14 4w

an unwanted child does not automatically become wanted when it’s born. social and developmental consequences exist as well, whether they’re abused or neglected their entire life or end up in the foster system.

3

Anonymous #14 4w

it could also lead to other disastrous consequences like losing your job, having to spend thousands or maybe millions of dollars that you do not have on unexpected medical bills or childcare costs, family, religious, or social ostracization, missing out on education or work experience, postpartum mental illness, etc. physical health is a major consideration, but not the only one people have to make.

4

Anonymous #3 4w

I know that, and I think they deserve a chance at life. Yes it might suck, everyone’s got a dose of that, but it’s better to give them a shot at the only thing they’ll ever have than nothing at all.

-2

Anonymous #14 4w

if it is solely reliant on another independently viable human being, and cannot live outside of the uterus on it’s own, no, i do not think that it has the same rights as the person carrying it. there, i said it. that clear anything up for you?

3

Anonymous #14 4w

imma be honest and say if the state of childcare wasn’t so terrible today along with the foster system that i might agree with giving kids a shot despite their circumstances but holy hell it’s fucking awful out there for parents rn, like that kid will have a fucked life it costs so much to raise a kid with love so i doubt they would get that considering they’re unwanted. you’re sentencing this child to a lifetime of suffering. some ppl aren’t meant to be parents and can’t be good parents. sad.

3

Anonymous #13 4w

you’re so right, a mom will have a kid and maybe get no paid maternity leave and will have to sacrifice her career to take care of the kid, while the dad’s career actually improves and he gets promotions. a lot of women stall out in life and get paid way less than men over time because of this. we live in a country where this is just the norm sadly and maybe more people would want kids if there was more equality and not a financial burden to have children.

1

Anonymous #3 4w

Oh it is sad. But for all I know it could be fixed in the next couple of years, we don’t know. If it does, at any rate, I would want them to be there to get help, wouldn’t you agree? I mean hell, there’s suffering everywhere all the time and in history, and it’s always our faults. But if we stop giving children what mess we have made, nothing will ever change. It sucks, but it’s all we have.

0

Anonymous #14 4w

if you don't have life you don't have death. a fetus isn't a person because they don't have personal experiences. fetuses don't feel emotions. they're a clump of cells. a concept. the same thought process behind calling sperm "children" and mourning the ones that go down your drain. the solution is not to force children upon unwanting mothers, it's to give the children that have flesh and bones and emotions and wants and needs the tools required for them to thrive.

4

Anonymous #11 4w

That is incorrect. Sperm is only half the process, it is not “human” anymore than pollen is a tree. Even if it is a clump of cells, it is still a human and thus has value. We disagree over foundational morals, which we may never compromise over.

0

Anonymous #14 4w

And I’m sure in both cases, we would want policy to be implemented on the basis of these beliefs.

0

Anonymous #11 4w

HPP is a rare genetic condition that can lead to a lack of bone structure, humans with that still have value, right?

0

Anonymous #14 4w

the consciousness is the human

3

Anonymous #11 4w

I disagree, the human is the human organism, or human cell which will develop overtime under the right circumstances into a more developed human, which at some point gets human consciousness.

0

Anonymous #14 4w

so are my cells individual humans since they're growing me? or is it the chromosomes?

3

Anonymous #11 4w

govt should make gooning illegal so men don’t waste their semen since there’s potential humans in it.

5

Anonymous #11 4w

That’s like saying bark is a tree

0

Anonymous #14 4w

is a seed a tree? are all seeds trees?

3

Anonymous #11 4w

They’re part of you, are they not? They aren’t made to develop another human on you. Unless you artificially fabricated them to do so, in which case you would likely be cultivating your Mini Me.

0

Anonymous #11 4w

They’re essentially trees, they will develop further under the right conditions, or you could destroy it or eat it (🙈why?!).

0

Anonymous #14 4w

these cells are parts of a self, exactly. they're part of the person. this includes zygotes, this includes skin cells, this includes cilia. it's not about the cells, it's always about the person.

1

Anonymous #14 4w

and people eat seeds all the time. if you went to a grocery store you'd know

1

Anonymous #11 4w

Do zygotes not develop further than that or will they always be zygotes?

1

Anonymous #11 4w

Oh I know, I have a lot of baked pumpkin seeds

1

Anonymous #14 4w

damn this thread will never die 💔💔😭

1

Anonymous #14 4w

so with your argument, eating those pumpkin seeds is killing baby pumpkins that could've grown and flourished

1

Anonymous #3 4w

i'm bored as fuck

1

Anonymous #11 4w

Yeah, exactly. But I doubt either of us follow a moral standard where that is a problem.

1

Anonymous #11 4w

Bro I wonder why. It’s late at night and we’re talking about something we probably won’t agree on lol

1

Anonymous #14 4w

would you say the same applies to chicken eggs?

1

Anonymous #11 4w

Don’t they sterilize them? That would make them no longer capable of developing further, still chickens, so yea.

1

Anonymous #14 4w

actually i do, eating pumpkin and pumpkin seeds is against my personal values. quick, ban them, i think you’re committing murder so therefore it’s wrong

3

Anonymous #13 4w

Murder is killing for malicious intent. If you want to push that you can, although I doubt there are many who subscribe to that same moral code

1

Anonymous #14 4w

would you say the same for livestock?

1

Anonymous #11 4w

You mean like their eggs?

1

Anonymous #14 4w

it’s almost like…one person’s moral code doesn’t dictate what is actually right and wrong, and we shouldn’t be imposing certain moral values on other people if they don’t subscribe to them…crazy right

1

Anonymous #13 4w

Except the only way to decide which moral codes should be implemented or which aspects should be implemented requires a complete and absolute moral code.

1

Anonymous #13 4w

You can say that, but that also means on the same page you shouldn’t forward abortion rights because it imposes certain moral values that other people don’t subscribe to.

1

Anonymous #14 4w

healthcare is a human right, believing someone shouldn’t be allowed to access it because you personally disagree with it is in fact a personal or moral value. one that should stop YOU from accessing that kind of care, not others.

1

Anonymous #13 4w

Right, and the human that is being developed should also have that same right, it conflicts with the same right of another individual and then we have a moral dilemma. But tell me, by what moral code is it a human right? You? I agree, but I’m trying to get at something bigger here.

1

Anonymous #14 4w

article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. last i checked, a fetus has no current job they risk losing, no developed uterus that could rupture or turn them septic, no current school they have to drop out of to care for someone else, no current costs or bills they have to pay, or anything. they don’t have the same rights because they don’t fucking need them

1

Anonymous #13 4w

Why should someone follow the policies of the UDHR?

1

Anonymous #13 4w

I’m sure you can see where I’m going with this lol

1