Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

That has nothing to do with what I just said.

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Anonymous #2 1w

Netanyahu kept refusing. He was politically stronger then. By the time November/December came around, Israelis were getting pissed off at him too. It was finally clear to many Israelis that the government didn’t give a fuck about the hostages

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Anonymous OP 1w

I am once again asking if you guys seriously follow this. Israeli politics played a huge role in this

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Anonymous OP 1w

It is called a parallel. You’re accusing Trump of permitting Israel to break its ceasefire deal, I’m outlining a time the Biden administration showed similar if not worse weakness on the subject of Israeli military conduct.

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Anonymous OP 1w

Every time you pretend to not understand something basic, I’m just going to explain it to you. I don’t care. I will happily pretend you’re stupid as hard as you.

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Anonymous OP 1w

and netanyahu being politically stronger than the fucking president is the problem

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

It’s called whataboutism. Biden shouldn’t have budged on that either. He did freeze some weapons shipments but that wasn’t enough

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Anonymous #2 1w

That’s not what I meant. More Israeli politicians backed Netanyahu earlier. His support publicly and in the government was dropping as he dragged this out

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Anonymous OP 1w

No whataboutism would be like if we were talking about Biden on Israel and I said “well what about his domestic policy isn’t *that* really bad? What about his wife? Jill is awful” That’s whataboutism. What I’m doing is called a parallel.

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Anonymous OP 1w

I can do this all day.

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Anonymous OP 1w

Biden is the president of the United States and Israel gets all of their support from us. He holds every single card. He could’ve pushed through a deal, he chose not to. An idiot like Trump got one done absurdly fast, and multiple insider reports claim Biden was uninterested in a ceasefire.

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

Nope. And it doesn’t work anyway, because like I said, Biden should have held firm on that too

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Anonymous OP 1w

We’re literally talking about Biden and Trump on this though. I’m not pro Trump, I’m anti Biden. There’s a difference, I have no actual interest in trumps defense on anything.

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Anonymous OP 1w

Not to mention, wouldn’t that make your whole post whataboutism?

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

“Absurdly fast” it’s literally been 10 months. That’s not fast. He shouldn’t have let the last one fall apart. This is exactly what he did with NAFTA. He blew it up and then created USMCA, which was functionally the same. Now he’s blowing up USMCA when he was the one who wrote it

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

So we already discussed Biden. He shouldn’t have budged. You’re avoiding discussing Trump for some reason. How do you literally have a ceasefire in place and then let it fall apart? Why was he declaring an emergency to send more weapons *during a ceasefire*?

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Anonymous OP 1w

The issue here I think is the fact that you’re refusing to allow Israel any agency. Israel, in your mind, cannot be responsible for their own actions. If they attack Gaza breaking their own ceasefire, then it’s trumps fault for letting them. Should Trump have stopped them? Yes. But he didn’t because he’s fine letting Palestinian children get raped and murdered every day. He’s totally chill with that because he’s evil. But you really should be placing the blame here on the murder-rapists

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

No. The original post implicitly mentioned Trump and made a comparison to a “what if” scenario regarding Harris. I added context. You brought up Biden, who would have no role in the Harris admin.

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Anonymous OP 1w

Kamala specifically said on live TV her admin would be no different from Biden’s. So Biden’s behavior and decision making on this subject are actually entirely relevant.

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Anonymous OP 1w

The president can both have an extreme level of power over Israel and Israel can still be its own actor with agency. That’s a really dumb argument.

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Anonymous OP 1w

That’s like saying someone isn’t responsible for a murder they committed because their parents control their finances, and thus could’ve stopped them buying a knife. Like, should the parents have stopped that purchase? Yes. But it doesn’t mean their kid is somehow no longer responsible for the dude he killed.

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

So then the US president doesn’t have *all* of the cards, correct?

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

She also was the first to call for a ceasefire. I weigh that specific action significantly more than a blanket statement about all policies (economic, social, domestic, foreign)

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Anonymous OP 1w

I mean… i fucking guess? They have most of them, but they don’t *literally* dictate every single military action inside of Israel. They’re aware of them before hand, and theoretically could stop them. But it’d be a lot of trouble.

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Anonymous OP 1w

Biden did not call for one. He called for a “humanitarian pause”

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Anonymous OP 1w

Yes, but she specifically said she would not deviate from Biden’s policy in any meaningful way. Meaning she would not be better on Israel, and Biden was not interested in a ceasefire. She sure called for it tho.

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

Where did I ever make the argument that Israel has zero responsibility? Show me

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

Again, blanket statement vs a specific action. She additionally met with Arab leaders to discuss the scale of suffering in Gaza. Biden did not do that.

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Anonymous OP 1w

It’s the premise of your post. Trump “letting” the Israeli military kill 20k people. Which implies he’s directly responsible for any actions made by the Israeli military.

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Anonymous OP 1w

But if you want to talk about words, I assume you remember when it was so out of line with the rest of the admin that they walked back her statement for her?

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Anonymous OP 1w

But if that’s true, then Biden is responsible for like… everything? Right?

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Anonymous OP 1w

Dude. If Trump has such control over Israeli military action as President, and can stop the military from violated ceasefires, why didn’t Biden just stop the war?

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

I’m not saying he’s 100% responsible. He absolutely carries some responsibility by continuing to arm them and even sending his own contractors to participate. The pressure from him in the early months was minimal. He wanted them to “finish the job” and wanted a hotel in Gaza.

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

Ignore the broken English I’m high

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Anonymous OP 1w

Then so does Biden? And by proxy Kamala, who said she wouldn’t significantly deviate from the Biden administrations policies?

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

Yeah, I can tell. Because you’re still arguing about something I never said. Trump is specifically, directly responsible for deaths by US military contractors. But he is not directly responsible for deaths from the IDF

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Anonymous OP 1w

Oh. Well, yeah.

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Anonymous OP 1w

Duh. I guess in that case I’d argue that I believe the deaths from the IDF are in part the presidents responsibility. Both Trump, and Biden’s, and assumedly Kamala’s given her statements.

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Anonymous OP 1w

And yeah trumps responsible for any deaths caused by those contractors. Of course.

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Anonymous OP 1w

We already fucking covered that on the other post I thought

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

Finally. That is my point. That he carries more culpability by sending his own contractors and not providing any serious amount of aid (even Biden provided more, but still not enough)

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

No, I don’t believe so

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Anonymous OP 1w

Sure but I already think Trump is responsible for the deaths in Gaza anyways

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Anonymous OP 1w

Like I’ve said a million times I’m not trying to defend Trump.

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

I never said you were trying to defend him 💀 I’m arguing about who has *more* culpability and how the situation is worse off under Trump. Sending US contractors and reducing aid was never on the table under Biden or Harris

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Anonymous OP 1w

Right, but I don’t think Harris would have ceasefire right now.

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Anonymous OP 1w

I think she would *also* permit Israel to violate it. Just like Biden did with Rafah. I believe this because she said she wasn’t interested in deviating from Biden’s policy.

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

Ultimately, it depends on how serious she would’ve reacted to Israel’s bombing of Qatar. That was apparently a major role in Hamas coming to the table, because they became more confident that Trump would actually hold Israel accountable. I’m still not sure what made Israel finally accept something. Maybe his support has dropped even further

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Anonymous OP 1w

If Israel didn’t attack Qatar I don’t think we’d have a ceasefire at all

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Anonymous OP 1w

Trump made Israel accept the deal. The reason Israel never accepted one before is because Biden was never really all that interested in one.

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Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 1w

Israel was happy to accept this deal it seems, both because of internal political pressure and the fact that Hamas is no longer demanding a full withdrawal from Gaza. The latter was a major sticking point, and a key demand in previous negotiations

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Anonymous OP 1w

Besides the part about governance and how far the withdrawal would be, the rest of the deal is largely the same as the deals under Biden

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