Anonymous og_beer 6d

Agreed. Most hate on Southern states are deeply rooted in classism and supposed moral superiority.

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Anonymous blue_brightly 6d

Yeah but classism is cool when it’s done in the support of progressive politics! Silly goose

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Anonymous og_beer 6d

I feel like you’re being sarcastic, but in case I didn’t make it clear, classism of any kind is unacceptable.

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Anonymous blue_brightly 6d

It was indeed sarcasm making fun of the hypocrisy that takes place in online political spaces

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Anonymous og_beer 6d

Okay, I just have a hard time telling whether or not people are being serious sometimes 🫶

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Anonymous #4 6d

voting is still reflective of one's character in a flawed system (2 things can be true at once) and there is functionally no difference between people who vote the same for different reasons. whether it's taxes, thinking they'll be rich, or hating brown people, they ultimately all worked in cahoots to put the same racist rapist felon with anti-constitutional dreams in office

1

Anonymous #3 6d

It’s desperate people. They want something and don’t care how they get it. To them the ends justify the means. My cousin struggled with addiction on and off for much of his life and he (as well as many others) would go to extreme measures to keep getting a fix once he ran out of money. That included stealing a lot from family members.

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Anonymous #3 6d

The point is, just like you’d blame Perdue pharmaceuticals for getting people hooked on Oxycontin rather than blaming the addicts, you should blame the propaganda machines for manufacturing outrage to sell newspapers or ad space rather than the people who fall for it

0

Anonymous #4 6d

stop infantilizing them. it's patronizing and a disgusting minimization of their agency. you're literally just explaining that they voted for the racist rapist felon out of self interest (duh) as if that changes anything about the blatant immorality of it simply put: an explanation is not an excuse

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Anonymous #2 6d

I’m on the same side btw I just love my home state of Arkansas and think it has so much potential

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Anonymous #3 6d

It’s mineralizing agency to discuss the impacts of education system failure, two party system failure, propaganda, and desperation has on a population. No one said it’s an excuse, they simply say it’s a reason, like you’re claiming, so the solution can be dealt with. Because “you’re fucking stupid and I hate you” isn’t a solution

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Anonymous og_beer 6d

"even most of the conservatives aren't that bad... it's a matter of recognizing it as a flaw in the system instead of reflective of one's character" is absolutely minimizing their agency and excusing their behavior. it is not one or the other

0

Anonymous #3 5d

Fine, let’s get philosophical then Is it really agency when all your behaviors are based off of information uniquely selected for you in a massive propaganda machine, where you aren’t even aware of an alternative? Is that agency then?

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Anonymous og_beer 5d

i'm not interested in meaningless, masturbatory reddit "philosophy". i'm interested in criticizing the impracticality of doing (deeply infantilizing) apologia and making excuses for nazis, nazi cohorts and nazi sympathizers

1

Anonymous og_beer 5d

we can wax poetic all day... but people in comparable situations to the trump voters still ended up not voting trump so it's clearly not written into the universe. it's not innate. it's avoidable, and they absolutely had agency in their *choice*

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Anonymous #3 5d

Oh you’re 12! My bad I didn’t mean to engage intellectually I was unaware of the circumstances

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Anonymous og_beer 5d

i was literally just thinking the same thing. we get a ton of recent hs grads this time of year and i wouldn't be surprised if that included you

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Anonymous og_beer 5d

you're gonna be watching them march black and brown people to camps still stroking it to how you're so cooperative and understanding with conservatives you spend all this energy telling leftists that right wingers and trump voters really aren't that bad and had no agency and expect me to take you seriously? politics is very obviously a spectator sport for you buddy, but voting is not a spectator sport, and voters are not innocent bystanders

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Anonymous og_beer 5d

You're a leftist right?

1

Anonymous #6 5d

Not technically because I like capitalism

1

Anonymous og_beer 5d

But like progressive leaning I'm guessing?

1

Anonymous og_beer 5d

Are you against anthropogenic climate change, for example?

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Anonymous #6 5d

Yeah I’m pretty progressive I’d say. And yes I’m against anthropogenic climate change, and believe in it lol

1

Anonymous #5 5d

Me? Because I said that Southerners don’t deserve to be treated as a monolith? Because I don’t associate myself with racists? Or is it because I support progressive policies?

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Anonymous blue_brightly 5d

Also there is no “spirit of Dixie.” In the context you’re using, I’m going to assume you’re referring to the policies promoted during the American Civil War and the succession of the Confederacy from the Union. I am a strong advocate for the South building itself up, bettering the economies and such of our states, but this cannot be done by leaving a large part of our population in the dust. Unity and strength cannot happen when racist, homophobic, and classist rhetoric is still being spoken (1)

1

Anonymous blue_brightly 5d

And enshrined into law such as the gerrymandering of districts in NC, abortion restrictions, and the discussion of banning or restricting same-sex marriage. (2)

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Anonymous og_beer 5d

Ok. So your neighbor has a little garage he does auto repairs in. He illegally dumps all the (sometimes hazardous) waste fluids in the street when it rains You would tell him it's all good, he's excused because he has no agency thanks to propaganda, lobbying and desperation inflicted by Chevron, Saudi Aramco, etc? He's absolved from responsibility when the neighbor kid is hospitalized from brake fluid in his water? No characteristic implications of selfishness, recklessness or carelessness?

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Anonymous #6 5d

No. But I wouldn’t assume he’s doing it out of lack of care. I’d assume he’s doing it out of lack of understanding the harm he’s causing. I’d let him know that 1- it is illegal in most places and 2- what direct harm it causes. If he genuinely believes it’s ok bc of bad information, I’m the type of person that would genuinely take the time to deconstruct that and help them unlearn and rebuild his knowledge from good information. Hanlons razor is my guiding factor here

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Anonymous #6 5d

You’re not quite understanding the point, and that’s ok. It doesn’t absolve you from responsibility, nobody said that. I asked a philosophical extreme to promote thought, which clearly nobody wants to do here. C’est la vie. But understanding how someone’s choices are formed, what contributed to it, only impacts how we can successfully go about changing their choices, not absolving from responsibility or consequences

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Anonymous og_beer 5d

I think you just had an incorrect prediction of my point, which is that (based on what you said) you admittedly wouldn't excuse his individual contribution to an issue and you must believe he has agency if you think deconstruction and relearning is possible

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Anonymous og_beer 5d

I'm not missing your point at all. I think it's valid to be a friendly face in reconstructing/deradicalizing. I think it's ineffective coalition building to expect everybody else to do the same, or to defend ppl who are (obviously) downplaying and excusing the extreme thinking that's being normalized among conservatives. Diversity of tactics is crucial

3