Anonymous #1 21h

Leo thinks they cannot obtain consciousness because they do not have a soul. I think that consciousness could be produced through the actions of metal circuits just as it can through neurons

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Anonymous #1 20h

They are simply algorithms and lack the human capabilities of instinct, love, and self-aware thought. There’s no soul

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Anonymous #1 20h

Yes it’s more than not having a soul, there are characteristics that we don’t understand yet that make us innately human

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Anonymous OP 20h

That is current ai. I think that consciousness is something whose existence is not dependent upon the physical medium. If it can exist in electrical circuits made of cells, it can exist in circuits made of metal.

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Anonymous #1 20h

We would never know if a machine is truly conscious, you can only ever be certain that you are conscious (assuming you are). This is why things like solipsism, though sounding absurd, cannot be disproven.

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Anonymous #1 20h

No they cannot attain conciseness the brain is not a computer

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Anonymous #3 20h

In all fairness the brain does act like a computer in many ways, they have a model called “computational theory of mind”. I don’t think we’d ever know if a machine is conscious but I won’t say it’s impossible

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Anonymous #2 20h

This is true. All our tests can only approximate whether consciousness exists. But given we also cannot know if other humans are conscious, it’s best to treat something as conscious if it for all purposes appears as such.

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Anonymous #3 20h

The brain is a computer made of cellular circuits.

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Anonymous #1 20h

Then just program an AI to convince you it’s having a real experience at all costs

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Anonymous #2 20h

I guess I should caveat. There at least needs to be internal mechanical plausibility for consciousness to exist. To the best of my knowledge, current AI models are not constructed such that consciousness is plausible. That’s just what I’ve read. I’m a biologist, not a computer scientist.

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Anonymous #1 20h

Also I don’t want anyone to misconstrue this as being pro-LLM. This is simply saying that there is little fundamentally different about electrical signals conducted through cellular mechanisms vs through inorganic circuitry in regards to consciousness.

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Anonymous #4 20h

We do need a new sort of designation of like a “ktitheist” of someone who believes that they created God

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Anonymous #1 20h

I think an interesting test of whether we have the capacity to make conscious machines is if we could recreate neurons at cellular scale, and precisely replace the neurons in something simply like a slug. If you replace one neuron I doubt its behavior changes much, keep going until the entire nervous system is machine. Of course our tech would have to advance far beyond what we are currently capable.

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Anonymous #2 20h

For instance, I find it hard to see how we could create a dynamic machine neuron that can undergo LTP, which is the basis of learning and memory. There’s also a careful balance of proteins and messengers that have to be created or destroyed constantly…

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Anonymous #2 20h

I mean we already have digitized neural networks of fruit flies. To a layman like me it seems like you just need to scale it up to get to more complex beings. (It’d require a LOT of scaling)

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Anonymous #1 20h

Yeah but I wouldn’t say that the program is conscious, it’s like a simulation of a conscious creature, that doesn’t mean it experiences anything

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Anonymous #2 20h

I think that consciousness itself is the signals and patterns, regardless of the medium. I don’t think a very simple animal like a sponge is conscious either. And a fruit fly probably isn’t truly conscious, or at least has an extremely low level.

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Anonymous #1 20h

I think biological consciousness is most likely a spectrum of complexity. I guess that makes it even harder when we are talking about machines.

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