Anonymous #1 14h

Bingo

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Anonymous #2 13h

What

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Anonymous OP 13h

That’s how social democracies work. They have to come at the expense of someone. The global south

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Anonymous #2 13h

Do you understand Finland’s economy? Going to guess not based on this comment.

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Anonymous OP 13h

Yeah it’s a capitalist economy? So it inherently relies upon the exploitation of labor

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Anonymous #2 13h

Finland is capitalist, therefore capitalism inherently exploits labor, therefore Finnish social democracy comes at the expense of the Global South” is not an argument; it’s a chain of assertions

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Anonymous #2 13h

If you want to argue that Finland specifically depends on exploitation of Global South labor, identify the mechanism, show the relevant Finnish supply chains/trade relationships, and demonstrate that the relationship is necessary to Finland’s social-democratic model. Otherwise you’re just importing a Marxist theory of capitalism and treating it as an empirical explanation of Finland.

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Anonymous OP 13h

All wage labor is rooted in the theft of surplus value that the worker produces 🤷‍♀️ idk how else to break it down

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Anonymous #2 13h

I am a Marxist, and yes obviously the Finnish economy relies on the exploitation of labor. Finnish businesses exploit Finnish workers. And I’m sure Finland benefits from the imperialism of its trade partners (I know they don’t do their own imperialism) and in a just world, those trade relationships would be a lot more even, but OP is coming at this from the position most people would, which is that social democracy makes people’s lives better who live under it.

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Anonymous OP 13h

It’s not like becoming a social democracy makes a country exploit the global south any more than that same country already would without the welfare state. America exploits the SHIT outta the global south, and we don’t even let most of our own people see the spoils. America not having universal healthcare doesn’t lessen the load on the victims of our imperialism. Obviously imperialism is the big issue, but for Joe On The Street, healthcare is an easier sell.

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Anonymous #2 13h

The fact that you’re not even talking about the type of exploitation that goes on in the global south, and are instead talking about wage labor, tells me that you are just regurgitating talking points you’ve heard from other communists. Imperial exploitation and waged exploitation are not the same. Especially in a case like Finland, where you started with imperial exploitation, something they don’t even do themselves and have no real control over, and have now pivoted to wage labor.

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Anonymous #1 13h

Obviously it’s imperial exploitation that goes way beyond that, I’m breaking down the most basic definition of exploitation for op since they think capitalism is such a wonderful and humane system

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Anonymous #1 11h

But you’ve changed the argument. Your original claim was that social democracy comes at the expense of the Global South. Now you’re arguing that capitalism involves exploitation and Finland participates in global capitalism. Those are not the same claim. If Finland would still have capitalist firms, wage labor, international trade, and whatever exploitative relationships you’re referring to without its welfare state, then those relationships aren’t caused by social democracy.

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Anonymous #1 11h

You can argue that capitalism or imperialism is inherently exploitative—that’s a coherent Marxist position. But that doesn’t establish that Finland’s social-democratic welfare state depends on exploiting the Global South. You still need to demonstrate that causal link.

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