Anonymous #2 3w

That all being said, I don’t think there is much use going “oh which genocide is better/worse?”. All we accomplish there is the historical and contemporary version of children going “I had it worse than you”

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Anonymous #5 3w

I think it’s most accurate to compare Gaza to the genocide of native Americans, particularly the ethnic cleansing in Virginia following the massacre of 1622. Or to compare it to the current genocide in Papua, or perhaps to the German genocide against the Herero and Nama (though that used more systematic death camps).

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Anonymous #5 3w

So they are similar in that they are both generally considered genocides by experts. But they are very different in terms of motivation, methods, and scale. The Holocaust is genocide at its most systematic and extreme with few being comparable in method and scale, while Gaza is a more commonplace form of genocide with many similar historical examples.

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Anonymous #5 3w

Woah. Easy with the experts thing. The genocide experts thing is a scam.

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Anonymous #5 3w

this - thank you. they're more different than similar in lots of ways, but both genocides

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Anonymous #6 3w

Are you agreeing with the genocide experts thing?

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Anonymous OP 3w

oh no i'm saying it's pretty nuanced like if you get into the details, it's much more different

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Anonymous OP 3w

You’re very much playing your hand when you call actual genocide experts “a scam.” This I think points to another good historical parallel: the Armenian genocide. Turkey’s working rhetoric is that recognition of the Armenian genocide is an anti-Turkish plot being pushed internationally by those who are only motivated by hatred of the Turkish nation. Turkey claims that there was no Armenian genocide, and that instead Armenians were attempting to genocide Turks.

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Anonymous #5 3w

that’s an excellent comparison I’ve never thought of that before

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Anonymous #5 3w

A government which is committing genocide will not agree with experts pointing out that it is doing so. It will try its best to discredit them, to say they are motivated by hatred of its government, and to call them liars. But international genocide experts, including some Israelis like Amos Goldberg and Omer Bartov, are not motivated by a hatred of Israel and more than they are by a hatred of Turkey

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Anonymous #1 3w

Thank you

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Anonymous #5 3w

Have you ever done research on who those “experts” are?

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Anonymous #1 3w

This and the Irish Famine, which is often mistaught here in the US. It was a genocide through starvation in which the Protestant English would take large quantities of food and only leave a failing crop. We’ve seen the IDF depriving Palestinians of humanitarian aid, settlers dumping Palestinian water, and more. There’s a reason the Irish government has sided with Palestine since the beginning, and it is because they’ve seen a similar genocide.

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Anonymous OP 3w

You think that there is a conspiracy among the UN, International Association of Genocide Scholars, and various independent well-recognized international genocide experts with decades of research, among them several Israelis. But the immediate urge is to baselessly discredit experts in their field as soon as they criticize a country whose government you support. These are people with decades of research and who do many things which aren’t related to Israel in any way.

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Anonymous #5 3w

This is very very similar to Turkey’s behavior. Any criticism of Israel must be motivated by anti-Israeli bias rather than considering the possibility that Israel is doing genocide. Any acknowledgement of the Armenian genocide is anti-Turkish hatred and apologism for Armenian rebels who attempted to kill turks!

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Anonymous #5 3w

It’s not a conspiracy. To join the IAGS you just have to pay them $30 and then you’re in. Legit someone applied in under the name Adolf Hitler and got in. Legit just google it.

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Anonymous #5 3w

I think the second two you mentioned are much better comparisons than the native Americans. The Jewish population is really close to recovering to pre Holocaust numbers, and it will happen in our lifetimes, the native population isn’t even close. It’s by far the worst genocide in human history, especially considering that the Jews that did survive got self determination in their preferred land, the native Americans still get oppressed systemically today.

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Anonymous OP 3w

I was actually not aware of that bit of investigative journalism and I think that likely removes the credibility of the IAGS resolution. It does not however mean the UN doesn’t exist or international independent genocide scholars (including a number of Holocaust scholars) who have made statements about this.

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Anonymous #8 3w

I was comparing the genocide of Native American to the systematic displacement of Palestinians and genocidal actions in Gaza, not to the Holocaust. The genocide of native Americans was a protracted event done by many different governments and parties and driven by progressive settler encroachment. It’s a very different form of genocide than the holocaust and I think because of that they should not be compared.

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Anonymous #5 3w

The Holocaust was an attempt at systematic permanent eradication of a people deemed politically dangerous and racially inferior through death camps. The genocide of native Americans was primarily driven by a desire for land, and included cultural assimilation, dispossession, and disproportionate government actions. Different kind of genocide over a much longer timescale and in a much less systematic manner.

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