Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 19h

you dont think you can study athletic ability between groups of people and compare them?

-6

Anonymous OP 19h

That’s not even remotely related to what I said.

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 19h

then what you said is not even remotely related to what i said

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Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 19h

what im saying is people make the claim there is no retained advantage and say there are studies to show it while the studies are not quality and dont actually say that

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Anonymous OP 19h

Yes it is. Allow me to explain: Universal negatives, as a general rule, are not falsifiable and therefore not subject to scientific inquiry. You need to reframe your proposition into something that’s actually falsifiable (i.e. “trans women athletes do retain an advantage over cis women”) and then talk about whether the data supports THAT.

14

Anonymous OP 19h

is athletics not entirely built around two groups of people (or just two people) with comparable skills competing in said sport to determine who is better?

10

Anonymous amethyst_headphone51 19h

nah. if you had a good quality design that compared trans women athletes and cis women athletes on a number of athletic metrics and found no difference between the distribution of the athletic metrics between the groups, you could conclude that there is no difference in athleticism between the groups aka no advantage is retained

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Anonymous #3 19h

yes, but in sports that require strength and explosiveness more than skill (like archery), there is such a difference in the abilities of men and women that we sex segregate them for the sake of fairness

0

Anonymous OP 19h

truthfully it’s hard to take that seriously when there are men with severe advantages over other men in their sports. same with women too. there’s even been cis women disqualified for naturally having more testosterone than other women & that really pissed me off. they were qualifying for the olympics in track, and all their efforts and training were shot down bc their body produces testosterone more than others. they were both still cis women, weren’t taking hormones or cheating, etc.

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Anonymous #3 19h

Something similar happened with a woman in boxing at the last Olympics iirc

13

Anonymous OP 19h

that separation puts cis women at a major disadvantage anyways. The NBA gets more views, more money, more opportunities, meanwhile the WNBA (even the names are annoying) gets little to no recognition, money, and definitely no damn respect. these women could absolutely compete against men in a coed league with no problem. those innocuous “disadvantages” are advantageous against MANY teams or opponents. sports are not just a simple binary.

11

Anonymous #5 19h

feel free to link some studies if you want dawg. the ones ive read are not good

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Anonymous #3 19h

i agree that the male female categorization leads to problems, and there are sports like mma that take other things like weight into consideration. but for the most part it does make sense to capture the broadest differences in groups. i think for most sports coed leagues would naturally create sex segregated teams because elite men are better athletically than elite women

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Anonymous #4 19h

i just stated a fact about the research dawg, this feels like projection from you

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Anonymous OP 18h

you haven’t linked a single study tho

12

Anonymous OP 18h

well you’re talking about sex at first in that comment and then later you go back to talking about gender. they are not interchangeable. we’d need to go back to those basics and get those straightened out before we can continue this discussion, tbh. we can’t have you confusing the two.

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Anonymous OP 18h

can you share the title and principal investigator of those studies you’ve read…

14

Anonymous #3 18h

tbh I don’t think they’ve actually read any.

7

reread OP’s post. “That show trans women’s athletes retain no advantage over cis women” firstly he’s being dishonest, secondly if that were the case he should have studied to support his foundational claim of “trans women have an advantage over cis women in athletics”

9

Studies* I recommend you stop projecting your illiteracy.

1

Anonymous #6 18h

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41633803/

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Anonymous #6 18h

this is a meta analysis of 50 studies

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Anonymous OP 18h

Title and Principal Investigator please, as links do not work here.

1

Anonymous #3 18h

im only referring to sex here

0

Anonymous #3 18h

type the link into google

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Anonymous OP 18h

the amount of time and effort you spent doing that you could’ve just copied the title name and the first author’s name…

12

Anonymous #3 18h

Body composition and physical fitness in transgender versus cisgender individuals: a systematic review with meta-analysis Sofia Mendes Sieczkowska et a

2

Anonymous OP 18h

this meta-analysis concludes that trans women do not have inherent athletic advantages over cisgender women… also, 52 studies (N=6485) is actually a small sample size compared to other studies with (N>10,000) that also conclude the same thing.

12

Anonymous OP 18h

You didn’t even read it.

8

Technically he provided data that disproved his own claim, so…

8

Anonymous #3 18h

it explicitly says the current evidence is low certainty and heterogenous. also it doesnt even look at metrics of athletic performance. thats my whole point

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Anonymous #6 18h

the point is the study is not applicable to athletics and has severe methodological flaws

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Anonymous OP 18h

it’s easy to turn around and gaslight others after being shown how you’re wrong, in order to avoid acknowledging that you are indeed wrong. we never asked you for an example of a flawed study, and you know that. It was always about you citing a study in support of yourself. you tried, and you failed.

7

Anonymous #6 18h

not sure what this comment is, my post states what my point is: there is no quality research showing no athletic difference. thats my claim, so me providing bad quality research like the meta analysis is proof to my claim

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Anonymous OP 18h

does your narcissism prevent you from processing criticism? it was me criticizing your active gaslighting and bad-faith attempts at discussing this topic, since you’re seemingly either too stupid, or too narcissistic, to comprehend that. both line up quite well.

7

Anonymous #6 18h

i mean instead of defending the research youre resorting to name calling and condescension, so it seems like only one of us is up to the challenge of a simple discussion lol

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Anonymous #6 18h

your argument is entirely dogshit lol. you’re incapable of referencing any studies that support your underlying foundation of the claim, that trans women supposedly have an advantage over cis women in athletics; while fixating on the part of your argument that is unverifiable via being rooted in your inherently subjective perspective.

6

Anonymous #6 18h

you seem very mad and upset you should take a break and chill out dawg

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Anonymous #6 18h

you, a mere anti-intellectual college student, are in no position to determine what is or isn’t a quality study. That is what we have the scientific process for, aka peer review. you know this though, as you were repeatedly told in the other post yesterday too; but you don’t give a fuck about objectivity or what’s actually true. You want to vilify trans people as much as possible, disregarding actual medical and scientific consensus along the way.

9

Anonymous OP 18h

Oh is my analysis of your behavior making you uncomfortable?

4

Anonymous #6 18h

id prefer an analysis of the studies which you seem incapable of doing

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Anonymous OP 18h

let’s not forget who brought up said research in the first place. you were asked for a study in defense of your underlying claim, not the subjective topical one. I can supply you with a picture of the specific request if you need it. unless you’re ready to acknowledge that you’re hyper fixating on this specifically-worded claim due to the fact that you’re not able to materially support the underlying claim, as was shown in the long-winding post on this topic yesterday?

5

Anonymous OP 18h

and yes, the study you cited fundamentally conflicts with your originally proposed subjective claim.

4

Anonymous #8 17h

idgaf about any sports im just interested in good research

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Anonymous OP 17h

you’re interested in transphobia, you’re not slick.

6

Anonymous OP 17h

(still waiting for you to actually back up your foundational claim)

6

Anonymous #6 17h

still nothing, OP?

1

Anonymous OP 16h

you’re shifting the burden of your claim by doing a double negative. what you’re trying to say is that there IS quality research showing there IS an athletic difference… and you need to provide THOSE studies to support.

4

Anonymous OP 16h

OP seems incapable of making progress in this debate on this platform, so i would suggest to you that you call into debate lines, such as Jimmy Snow or Jovan Bradley, with your studies prepared to share.

6

Anonymous #3 16h

no thats not what im saying at all. theres not really any quality comparison studies done that point in either direction because the studies are flawed

1

Anonymous OP 15h

i think you may be unaware of some of the studies. if you’d like, you can explore Jovan Bradley’s channel to find a debate to view where these studies are explored.

1

Anonymous ireallylikepancakes 13h

how

1

Anonymous ireallylikepancakes 10h

In this case, cisgender could be a dummy variable and tested for significance in an athletic performance model. I don’t agree with OP, but it is possible here

1

Anonymous #8 10h

you wont find any kind of athletic analysis in any study on this topic btw

1

Anonymous OP 8h

Are you claiming that people haven’t tested how HRT affects athleticism?

3

Anonymous ireallylikepancakes 8h

im claiming that there are no good studies that compare trans women athletes and cis women athletes. there are many studies out there and every one ive seen is either incredibly flawed or not designed to answer that question

1