Anonymous #2 1w

Like when?

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Anonymous blue__wave 1w

Not going to take your bait

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Anonymous #1 1w

are you gay?

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Anonymous #2 1w

genuinely tho… when?? i can however name a few specific times most trump supporters were generally upset at people being arrested

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Anonymous #2 1w

Bc it literally doesn’t happen, I know your fav conservative podcaster shows you angry internet people that isn’t the average left wing person.

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Anonymous OP 1w

mhm! but for ladies

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Anonymous #4 1w

We have the largest incarceration rate of any country. I know Donald Trump keeps repeating this truism it’s just not true. I’m sure bad people somehow slip through but holistically our cj system isn’t like that.

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Anonymous #4 1w

Actually made sure it was true, we have the highest of any developed country but we’re fifth overall.

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Anonymous blue__wave 1w

My point was more so in the way different crimes are prosecuted. I’m just confused as to why a repeat offender who murders a child can get released on parole after serving 8 years, yet you have drug trafficking charges being 10+ years.

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Anonymous #4 1w

What case are you referring to with the child murder? But I agree that actually something that’s beyond stupid is the federal drugs scheduling.

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Anonymous #4 1w

I think my problem overall is I feel like we do incarcerate a lot of people, but I feel like we focus on niche cases were the guy got off easy or somehow got a rlly good plea bargain. Or it’s just a bunch of miss information like in the case of the one Ukraine girl’s death.

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Anonymous blue__wave 1w

Ronald Exantus. Released for “good behavior” under a KY law that enforces a credit system. I personally think this is a great example of soft on crime policies. I’m sorry but no amount of “good behavior” in jail should outweigh breaking into a random home and stabbing an innocent child in the head.

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Anonymous #4 1w

The problem I see is we are too focused on trying to help people who just don’t want to be helped or can’t be helped. There is no reason that people with lengthy rap sheets who are in and out of jail repeatedly should continue to get these chances. Since you brought up Decarlos Brown, he had more than a dozen arrests already before the murder & was clearly dealing with mental illness. His own family said they were concerned yet he wasn’t considered “dangerous enough” to get forced treatment.

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Anonymous #4 1w

the problem is we are quite literally not focused on trying to help people. people go in and out of jail time after time and you think the problem is we’re trying to help them?? some people are beyond help yes, however a majority of crimes people sit in jail for are caused by their economic/family/addiction situations which can be helped. we should arrest criminals but jail should be about both rehabilitation and punishment instead of solely punishment and that is one of our issues

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Anonymous OP 1w

Not our fucking problem. You want to help you can be like that lady who was killed by an ex con just “down on their luck” I’m sure. Lol so amazing how the most vocal never lift a finger (bc they aren’t ever affected by these criminals’ poor actions and it shows).

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Anonymous OP 1w

I mean in less severe cases, sure. But in the case of violent crimes especially murder? No thanks. These are more so the cases I’m talking about. You can’t just let people who don’t care to be helped continue to walk free. Some cases and people don’t even deserve a chance at rehabilitation. It’s a harsh truth.

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Anonymous #2 1w

Also as an addition to this point, a rough life and personal struggles can explain bad behavior but it doesn’t excuse it.

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Anonymous #4 1w

quite literally never said anything about violent cases. you guys literally just make up stuff to disagree with and use it to disagree with the entire statement that had nothing to do with what i said. a lot of people are in jail for non violent crimes, drug, property, etc crimes. it costs less money to treat these people than to lock them up. this whole “some people don’t want to be helped” is some crazyyyyy fiction to justify not even attempting. i also never said it excuses it??

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Anonymous #4 1w

they shouldn’t just be excused, they still should get arrested for their crimes in just saying giving people punishment and then releasing them does nothing to better anyone’s lives. it quite literally is our fucking problem because if we release people without treating them they’re on the streets likely to reoffend, if we keep them in jail forever that’s a lot of fucking money going towards literally nothing that could be used in a thousand other ways to better our society.

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Anonymous #4 1w

Decarlos Brown couldn’t get mental health treatment bc North Carolina gutted their mental health system. He went to jail for one violent crime of I believe robbing someone with a gun the rest were misdemeanors (you can correct me if I’m wrong). He assault his sister but she didn’t press charges bc the prison system made his mental health worse. As for the Kentucky case it’s stupid that they had a system where parole boards could be overruled. Regardless this idea that helping people = bad is -

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Anonymous OP 1w

Did you even read what I just said? I addressed my thoughts on violent crimes and more minor offenses. And, your initial statement was just an about being soft on crime. Not minor crime not violent crime, just crime. That opens the conversation up to all types of crime. If you don’t believe there are ppl who refuse help or are beyond helping, it’s kind of just you being blind to it.

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Anonymous #4 1w

-obviously silly.

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Anonymous OP 1w

Again i was just trying to make a point for violent crime. I would sincerely hope you agree atleast with the things I’ve said about that. I don’t disagree in helping people in less severe cases who need it or want it. In regard to life in prison being expensive, I take no issue with the death penalty. Eye for an eye, life for a life. If there is no doubt of guilt or there is admission of guilt, I don’t take issue with it.

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Anonymous blue__wave 1w

Quite literally at no point did I say helping people is bad. The fact of the matter is there are flaws in the system across the board that fail to deter crime and reoffenders. Yes that does include weaknesses when it comes to mental health resources. Again, struggles and hardships can explain behavior but do not excuse them.

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Anonymous #4 1w

yes i mean of course i think there are certain crimes we should be hard on, we could be harder on, and some crimes that you should simply be ostracized from society for forever. i made my initial claim that the left isn’t really “soft” on crime but my replies have been all on the topic of issues with the CJ system. the is probably one of the least left positions i have but i also agree with the death penalty, i think there’s an argument it’s more moral than keeping people in prison for life

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Anonymous #4 1w

“We are too focused on trying to help people” that’s not the problem that should be the point of criminal justice system. Yeah we agree the system isn’t perfect I disagree with the heuristic of “people are just trying too hard to help people” or even that are system is too soft on crime. Again we have the highest incarceration rate of any developed nation I know we can always find these niche cases in the news bc the United States is huge country with diverse cj systems.

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Anonymous #4 1w

Holistically are country is already hard on crime and when did I ever say it excuses the behavior obviously not.

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Anonymous #4 1w

Our*

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Anonymous blue__wave 1w

Finish the quote. Don’t leave out half of my quote. If you look at the full sentence, you will see that I said that there are some people who don’t deserve help. Like the other person in this convo said, there are some people who just deserve total ostracization or the death penalty for their crimes. And no, these aren’t the people with drug problems or theft charges. You should atleast be able to find an agreement on that level.

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Anonymous OP 1w

I agree. As I said this mindset and my thoughts aren’t really pertaining to less serious convictions. There absolutely should be a push to get help for those people before it potentially devolves into something worse.

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Anonymous #4 1w

The rest of the quote doesn’t even matter the Kentucky guy was literally released bc he seemingly wanted to “help himself”. It’s not a question of deserves its a question about what is better for society. I don’t gaf what other people feel like other people deserve. Thats the entire problem with cj convo in this country it’s not about what people deserve it’s about what’s better for society and communities not what people arbitrarily feel.

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Anonymous blue__wave 1w

Well I think it’s better for a society to not tolerate murderers and rapists.

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Anonymous #4 1w

Yes obviously I’m arguing we should tolerate rapist true.

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Anonymous #4 1w

But seriously what I’m arguing for is that 1. We’re already hard on crime holistically as a country, We have the highest incarceration rate of any country, we have over crowded prisons, we’re one of the few developed countries that has the death penalty etc. 2.rehabilitation will always be more important and better for society than punishment. That doesn’t mean everyone can be rehabilitated.

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Anonymous blue__wave 6d

Yes I agree that rehabilitation is important in many scenarios for many people however I can also believe that there are some people who commit heinous acts or live evil lives and they do not deserve a chance at rehabilitation. Hence why I brought up the death penalty. I think it looks bad on the system and is not “better for society” when people who take innocent lives get to accrue “good behavior” points or get reduced sentences. I think that should go out the window for someone like that.

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Anonymous blue__wave 6d

Again I’m not nor have at any point in this conversation said I don’t support building rehabilitation programs. Because I can believe in that, while also saying that some people just simply shouldn’t be given that chance. It opens up a messy can of worms. I see where you are coming from and I just ask that if you also think that not everyone can be rehabilitated, are we not in agreement on that level?

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Anonymous #4 6d

Yeah I already agreed that some people can’t be. I just don’t like the understanding of CJ that the goal should be that someone deserves some level of punishment instead of 1. How do we stop this person from hurting other people and 2. How if possible do we get them back into society. To me those are the only two questions I care about. I get you believe rehabilitation programs.The problem is you only believe in them to the point you feel like a person deserves it and that’s super arbitrary.

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Anonymous #4 6d

For example, there used to be a point where people believed thieves deserved to have their hands get cut off. Thats why I just don’t care and I think it’s counter productive to search our feelings and see what we feel a person deserves. If evidence shows they can be in society let them back in if it doesn’t hold them.

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Anonymous blue__wave 6d

When I say some people don’t deserve that and don’t deserve to be reintegrated into society, I’m thinking of people like school shooters/remorseless killers or pedophiles who quite frankly don’t deserve these opportunities. I see it as not just as a public opinion of what those types of people deserve but I do also see it as better for society in some cases. I also personally think that in cases like this it is important to take the feelings and opinions of affected people into account.

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Anonymous #4 6d

Yeah I just disagree that we should be determining the outcome of people lives through what we arbitrarily feel they deserve. This why we have case law, precedent and statutes that outline sentencing. I think victim testimony is maybe good to fully understand the harm the person has caused but that’s why we don’t let victims determine sentencing bc we realize that victims are incentivized to seek revenge not to seek what’s best for society.

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Anonymous #4 6d

People have the ability to do awful things and be rehabilitated. It would sad to lose that as a society bc we just happen to arbitrarily feel they don’t deserve it. Idk maybe we should go back to a time where people were just punished based on how people felt. If people feel like you should have your hand cut off if you’re a thief then ig we should start cutting off people’s hands. I think we’ve socially developed enough as a society for that not to be the case.

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Anonymous blue__wave 5d

Again you keep bringing up thievery and stealing when I’ve said I think multiple times now that this is not what I’m talking about. I don’t think it would be sad to not give awful people more chances than they deserve. Some people just should lose those chances when they do horrendous things on purpose. Sorry, but I’m not budging on that. Again I want you to understand the crimes I’m referring to when I talk because I can’t stress that enough that minor infractions are not the concern.

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Anonymous #4 5d

That’s the conclusion of your logic though that if people feel like someone deserves something that should be their punishment. When I say sad I mean society is worse off, I shouldn’t have sad I don’t care if people find it sad or not.

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Anonymous #4 5d

That’s the problem with your world view you’re saying that criminals should be punished based on what people feel they deserve. That would mean that if people felt like some arbitrary crime should be punished with capital punishment that should happen. Under my world view that would never happen bc I don’t measure the successful of the CJ system off what people feel.

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