Anonymous #1 7w

Confession should be a safe place for Christians but once it crosses the line of harming yourself or others, authorities should be involved immediately.

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Anonymous #2 7w

If someone cannot report your crimes to authorities BECAUSE of a religion, that is immunity. Hope this helps!

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Anonymous #2 7w

The president is helping stop a law that forces priests to report child abuse of any kind, including sexual, to the authorities. Hope this helps!

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Anonymous OP 7w

No, not receiving justice or punishment is immunity! What you are describing is called clergy-penitent privilege- not immunity! Hope this helps!

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Anonymous #3 7w

Right! But does confessing your crimes to a priest make you immune to the punishment of the law? (The answer is no so it’s not immunity)

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Anonymous #2 7w

Okay, well regardless! Shouldn’t fucking happen! If Christians favorite thing is abusing kids, then they can get reported for it. Hope this helps!

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Anonymous #3 7w

It’s the same logic as attorney client privilege

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Anonymous #2 7w

If the law is not notified by mandatory reporters, how do they face punishment? Especially for sexual crimes which are not always easy to gather hard evidence for?

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Anonymous #2 7w

Very untrue, hope this helps

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Anonymous OP 7w

Thing is it’s not their favorite thing! That’s making an assumption that a small group of people represent the actions of the entire group as a whole- the same argument racists use!!

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Anonymous #2 7w

I let my hate slip out a little bit with that comment, but seriously. You’re okay with the fact someone in the church and its community can admit to harming a child and it does not have to be reported? Because it’s their “right”?

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Anonymous #3 7w

So a confession is not the only evidence of way to prove someone guilty! Hope this helps!

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Anonymous OP 7w

Yes that’s the point of a confession.

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Anonymous #2 7w

Making a choice and then applying that logic to others who also make that choice is not the same argument that racists use. Racists attack inherent traits and identities then apply the behaviors of the fee who match that identity, to the entire group because of their identity.

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Anonymous #2 7w

Not what I asked. Try again.

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Anonymous #2 7w

No shit, smart guy. But if someone’s coming to a priest to get forgiveness for abusing a child, that’s pretty much cold hard evidence.

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Anonymous #3 7w

Right but it’s only a small fraction of the group who are also making that choice and you are describing that small fraction to be the entire group!

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Anonymous #2 7w

Just say you want to keep child abuse in the church under wraps and move on. You do not care about the children.

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Anonymous #2 7w

Yes and that active decision to hold an ideological view is not the same argument that racists use. If I say, all nazis are evil because some nazis are evil. You still choose to be a nazi, that’s a choice. Racists use things that aren’t choices and ascribe the behaviors that are; to that identity.

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Anonymous #2 7w

If someone came up to you and admitted to abusing a child in anyway, you would report that. Why would anyone not be allowed to report that just because of a certain religion or building they are in. It’s sickening to see how little people are willingly to do to save children. Especially from the church. (Infamous for abusing CHILDREN)

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Anonymous OP 7w

So think of attorney client privilege. A person can admit they are guilty to their lawyer and they are not forced to tell anyone and can fight to free them. You don’t seem to have a problem with that but you have a problem with Christians confessing and simply admitting to their wrongs not even trying to fight for their innocence like lawyers. So you don’t have a problem with the idea of confessing you have a problem with Christianity

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Anonymous OP 7w

All they’re saying is they want adults to have the privilege of keeping pedophilic and sexually charged incidents with kids to themselves if they like.

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Anonymous #2 7w

False dichotomy, attorney client privilege only exists for the sake of a fair trial. Which is a constitutional right. It is not a constitutional right to conceal the details of a crime knowingly.

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Anonymous #2 7w

You know there’s a movie about this. true story right? The Catholic Church is infamous for moving priests that abuse children. They just move them. The church is notorious for abusing children and keeping it under wraps. Let’s not give them another out.

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Anonymous #3 7w

However there is a constitutional right to freedom of religion. Part of the religion is confessions and priests honoring that confession!

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Anonymous #2 7w

Freedom or religion does not give you freedom to conceal the details of a crime. That’s been contested over and over throughout history and repeatedly is proven to be true. The Lory Daybell case currently is a good example. She had a religious belief, told religious figures the details of her crime; and they were charged with accessory to that crime because it was a felony charge. Try again!

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Anonymous #3 7w

So clergy-penitent privilege protects them from not having to report the crime! What I think you might be imagining is a priest covering up details or lying to throw off the investigation. People have the 5th amendment as well so they don’t have to say anything

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Anonymous #2 7w

I’m just here to ask, with the history of the Catholic church, why are we not appalled that they are using their “rights” to get away with the abuse that they are known for.

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Anonymous #2 7w

Did you know that in the US (2002) 50% off accused priests were relocated rather than removed? Most bishops will just move the priest to avoid authorities.

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Anonymous OP 7w

Because the “abuse that they are known for” isn’t exactly as big of a problem as you think it is. A public school teacher is more likely to SA a child than a catholic priest.

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Anonymous #2 7w

since 1950, around 200,000 children have been abused by the Catholic Church in France. Watch the movie Spotlight and you might feel differently standing up for these actions.

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Anonymous OP 7w

https://thelibertariancatholic.com/children-are-more-likely-to-be-sexually-abused-by-public-school-teachers-then-catholic-priests/

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Anonymous #2 7w

Even though clergy-penitent privilege is recognized in many jurisdictions, courts have limited or overridden this privilege in cases involving compelling state interests, especially when it comes to the protection of children. State v. Brown, 953 P.2d 1179 (Wash. Ct. App. 1998) courts consistently hold that clergy privilege does not apply when the communication is not strictly confessional or when the risk to a child is ongoing and serious

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Anonymous #2 7w

No shit, Sherlock. That’s just common sense. But to say “the abuse they’re known for isn’t that big” is LAUGHABLE! Look up statistics of the church and child abuse RN.

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Anonymous #2 7w

Also a difference is in majority of cases of teachers doing the same, they are held accountable in prison or at the very least fired🤷‍♀️

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Anonymous #2 7w

Courts have held that the state has a compelling interest in preventing child abuse. And that can justify overriding privilege protections In re Zuniga, 714 P.2d 1296 (Colo. 1986)

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Anonymous #2 7w

There isn’t a huge conspiracy all over the world with teachers that let all the other teachers abuse 100s of kids (Yes there are multiple priests that have abused 100s of children) (Watch Spotlight)

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Anonymous #2 7w

Even now. Over 30 states now have mandatory reporting laws for clergy that do not exempt confessional communications in child abuse cases. (N.C. Gen. Stat. § 7B-301)

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Anonymous #2 7w

Hope this helps!!

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Anonymous #3 7w

So for most of those 30 states it’s if they learned it outside a confession! The only states that have mandatory reporting inside a confession is NH, NC, OK, TX, WV, (WA being blocked by a federal court rn) hope this helps!!!

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Anonymous #2 7w

The point was to show that clergy client privilege is regularly overridden so this idea that we can’t touch it, is again, flawed. Sorry that went over your head. I’ll dumb it down next time.

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Anonymous #2 7w

Also, even if “most” don’t. Some still do lol. Some still apply the law even to information learned during confession. Why don’t you want to address that?

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Anonymous #2 7w

Only 3 of the ones I was referencing out of the 30 have laws that prevent people from using confession based testimony.

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Anonymous #3 7w

Because laws can be wrong lol

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Anonymous #3 7w

I’m sure that you believe abortion should be allowed even when some states have laws to prevent people from getting them.

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Anonymous #2 7w

So you used the law to justify clergy client privilege, and I used the law to justify why it’s okay to touch. But my use of it is invalid because you don’t like it?

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Anonymous #3 7w

Yooo pause crazy wording on this

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Anonymous #2 7w

Touch clergy client privilege, happy to clear that up for you! answer this time.

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Anonymous #3 7w

No I just said that the law isn’t right 100% of the time

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Anonymous #2 7w

So you’d prefer if the law left it up to adult to report sexual crimes on children?

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Anonymous #3 7w

I’d prefer if the law didn’t go against religion

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Anonymous #2 7w

Not what I asked. Try again, I know it might be hard to understand but you can do it!

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Anonymous #3 7w

It’s so funny watching you get so upset when I don’t answer your loaded questions the way you wanted me to lol

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Anonymous #2 7w

Not what I asked. You can do it! I’m waiting!

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Anonymous #3 7w

It is what you asked! Just not the answer you wanted!

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Anonymous #2 7w

I actually didn’t ask if you preferred if the law went against religion. You can actually quote the part in the last question where I even say the word religion, if you’d like. Try again :) this is a great look. I’m glad you’re avoiding it You already admitted to not answering !

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Anonymous #3 7w

Hmmm that’s an interesting opinion! This is a great look that you’re getting this upset over me not answering your loaded question the way you wanted me to. I’m glad you don’t understand fallacies!

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Anonymous #2 7w

You calling it loaded doesn’t make it one. But I’m happy to see that you don’t want to give an opinion on whether or not you’d prefer if adults had the option to CHOOSE whether or not they report sexual crimes committed on kids. I know where you stand :)

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