Anonymous #1 4d

Figured, all that big talk about “the point of the second is to protect the others” was just talking out your ass huh.

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

I never said any of that

0

Anonymous mushy.the.mushroom 4d

Fuckin singing that schoolhouse rock shit on the daily at least and I’m not even really kidding

1

Anonymous #2 4d

The 14th is literally being attacked as we speak but sure the 1st and 2nd are just more common

7

Anonymous #1 4d

When did it become so in fashion to believe nothing?

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

The 1st and 2nd are also constantly attacked what’s your point

3

Anonymous #2 4d

Fr so is the 4th

3

Anonymous #3 4d

Yeah unfortunately

5

Anonymous #2 4d

My point is that there are so many people that are willing to fight even the slightest push on the 2nd amendment but will just look the other way as other amendments get absolutely trampled on. It’s hypocritical is my point.

6

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

I can see that, but it’s good to know that you’re pro-2A

1

Anonymous #2 4d

I’m very pro-2A, in fact I don’t think any gun should be outright banned, but I do think how those guns are given out should be regulated. Stuff like needing a license to own a firearm and required waiting periods, psyche exams, requiring references, etc. but I do think the ability to own a firearm is an American right because we didn’t fight the British with sticks.

6

Anonymous #2 4d

This is also why I think healthcare and mental healthcare plus education should be free and improved on. Lot less crazies that way.

4

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Do you think we should have waiting periods and psyche exams to access the 1st?

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Or maybe the 4th?

1

Anonymous #3 4d

No obviously, but you can’t kill someone with an opinion

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Even a right delayed is the same as a right denied, comparing an inalienable right to a privilege granted by government makes me think that you do not understand what either really is.

0

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

If you do, then you're just being disingenuous in saying you are very pro 2A

1

Anonymous #3 4d

This is exactly what I mean… even a slight push gets treated like a straight up attack. We have a fucking problem in this country, a LOT of people are dying because too many people with bad intentions have guns. But nooooo the moment someone even tries to come up with a solution it’s treated like the end of democracy.

4

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

I would say the same if you did suggest psyche exams or waiting periods to access any other right

0

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

It's not just about the 2A

0

Anonymous #3 4d

Good, cool, no argument there, so if regulation is such a shitty idea what exactly is your solution to the 18,000 gun related homicides each year?..

5

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Policing, how do we solve and lower any other type of crime rate or murder rate?

0

Anonymous #3 4d

Also I believe in the right to own and bear arms and form a well regulated militia but I also have common sense

1

Anonymous #3 4d

Policing is only reactive, laws are proactive

2

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

The right to keep and bear arms doesn't reside in the militia, SCOTUS and almost every gun owner out there will show you where it says "the people".

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

It may be necessary to form a militia, but that does not take away from the individual right.

1

Anonymous #3 4d

I know that’s why I said “and”. I don’t buy the crap about it “just being for a militia”

6

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Well what would your "common sense" necessitate?

1

Anonymous #3 4d

Making sure that we we don’t give a gun to someone with a history of violence. We have stuff in place now which has helped but that’s why j think licensing would be good because usually the people who aren’t too crazy for a gun don’t mind needing to get a license renewed. Now I know what you’re gonna say and I know it’s not perfect but it’s a lot better than what we have now without going all “ban all guns”

4

Anonymous #3 4d

I have other ideas too, like for certain weapons you should be required to have a reference, particularly from a law enforcement officer

4

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

There are plenty of laws to stop that lol I doubt making it even more illegal will make the criminals care

0

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Model bans are ridiculous, you could buy a warship back in the day

0

Anonymous #3 4d

Did you not see my last point? I already said it isn’t perfect but it would still help.

5

Anonymous #3 4d

Model bans are ridiculous I agree with you on that. Personally I find all bans ridiculous

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

These serve to annoy your average gun owner way more than they do to stop criminals, repeal the NFA instead

1

Anonymous #3 4d

I’d be fine with that but I’d still want the whole licensing and reference thing. Also I hope you agree with me on this, but if you have a child, all guns must be locked in a gun safe that they cannot access.

6

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Again, reducing a right down to a license granted by the government is tantamount to putting people in camps in my mind. I would literally never back that

0

Anonymous #3 4d

The fact that you can’t see the difference is concerning…

6

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Our country was founded on ideals like these, I don't care if you think it's wrong to equivocate them

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Give me liberty or give me death

0

Anonymous #3 4d

It’s easy to say that when you’re not the one dying.

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Some of my closest family members have been shot don't give me that bullshit

0

Anonymous #3 4d

I’m sure they’re feeling quite liberated.

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Sorry that was mean, I feel we’re not going to convince each other, so I’m gonna just go.

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

I mean sucks that they had to go through that to even prove a need to carry where they live, but thats the way we're forced to live now

-1

Anonymous #3 4d

You realize every right has limitations we don’t have absolute freedom of speech.

2

Anonymous blue__wave 4d

I feel like beyond assaulting people, direct threats, and fire in a threatre scenarios we should though, that was clearly the intention of the 1st amendment

1

Anonymous blue__wave 4d

reasonable limitations ≠ reducing a right down to licensure

1

Anonymous #3 4d

So regulating the 2nd amendment to help stop gun deaths is too far but you’re fine with regulating the first amendment to stop death threats and fire in theatre? So common sense regulation is fine with speech but not guns then.

6

Anonymous #3 4d

That’s just not true defamation laws and perjury have always been a thing here.

9

Anonymous #3 4d

Are you fine with voter id laws?

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Its illegal to murder someone with a gun too last time I checked

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

We don't go and stop all speech because of some criminal speech that causes death

1

Anonymous #3 4d

And I’m not suggesting we get rid of all guns either.

2

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

We don't require a license to speak?

1

Anonymous #3 4d

No is saying to stop all guns.

1

Anonymous #3 4d

Jesus this is like arguing with a child… what exactly are you worried about?… does your mind jump straight to camps or what? Cause we’ve had a loooong history of gun control in this country and so far still no camps.

5

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

False, we rounded up the Japanese Americans during WW2 and will still put you in a prison camp for 10 years for arbitrary gun laws like short barreled rifles

0

Anonymous #3 4d

Wait are you ok with voter id laws?

1

Anonymous #3 4d

Pretty sure we didn’t round up the Japanese because of their avid love of firearms…. Also I thought you LIKED having more police. They broke the law didn’t they?

4

Anonymous blue__wave 4d

No I don't really support the push for REAL Id either, don't fly anymore

5

Anonymous #3 4d

I respect that you really stick to your guns.

1

Anonymous #3 4d

Ok I was just curious, but my point is that there are reasonable limitations on rights that aren’t explicitly listed in the constitution.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 4d

None of the free speech restrictions I mentioned were listed in the constitution, it would just be explicitly unconstitutional to restrict the right to bear arms without controlled discretion (which would apply to a license for ownership since that is both not a restriction on the time, place or manner, and furthermore explicitly infringes the 2nd by infringing the ability to keep arms)

1

Anonymous #3 4d

Hold on hold on, let’s talk about controlled discretion then. Because while I still think my idea would be better I’d be more than willing to hear you out on yours.

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

I don't think concealed carry licenses for public grounds are necessarily an infringement, they can even serve as a protection and justification for carrying in a legal manner. I just think they should be required to have a "shall-issue" system that doesn't involve a gun education based certification

1

Anonymous #3 4d

Hmm.. ok so what about licenses for things like semi automatic and slam fire firearms? Regular age and background checks for more conventional firearms. I also think the references should be used, but like that would go along with the background checks and waiting periods which we already have.

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

How would that apply to the time, place, or manner? That's not a restriction of where, how, or when you keep or bear, it's a restriction on what you keep.

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

I don't think that enforcing a form of search to every single person who applies would hold under the 4th amendment either, that seems unreasonable.

1

Anonymous #3 4d

That doesn’t make sense under the current precedent you can require licenses. A gun license would be a manner restriction.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 4d

It wouldn't if it applies to every single manner of owning a firearm which I assume is what you are referring to when you say a gun license

1

Anonymous #3 4d

Ok you missed the point, the free speech restrictions you listed could be interpreted as explicitly unconstitutional that’s my point. Having felons own guns “infringes the ability to keep arms” that’s still legal.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 4d

You could maybe make that argument to require ownership of a gun safe though cause that actually would apply to the manner in which you keep them.

1

Anonymous blue__wave 4d

You're really not gonna like this, but I think an immediate lifetime ban for committing a felony is unconstitutional as well

1

Anonymous #3 4d

No there are two states Illinois and Massachusetts that require a license for to own a gun.

1

Anonymous #3 4d

You keep flipping back and forth between your interpretation of the constitution and the current interpretation.

1

Anonymous #3 4d

If we’re talking about the current precedent your interpretation is meaningless. I feel like we had the felon convo already if your the same guy.

1

Anonymous #3 4d

I actually don’t mind that one, but it depends on the felony. Like I believe rehabilitation should be the goal but if someone was released from prison for murder with a gun idk if they should be given a gun back. Then again most people who commit a crime with a gun and are caught don’t tend to get out of prison.

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

Well you guys keep fighting the good fight of trying to trample my rights through bureaucracy however much you want I guess, I sure am happy for 3d printers and cnc machines

1

Anonymous #3 4d

You are really over dramatic you know that? I thought we were closing in on a compromise.

1

Anonymous dr.apple 4d

I'm not looking to compromise on my rights tbh

1