Anonymous OP 12w

This is something that has been debunked for well over a decade. The studies that found the wage gap just took the average earnings of all men and all women and said men are earning more; they did not factor in jobs worked, hours worked, education level, or experience level. When you account for these factors, young women actually tend to make more than men, until/unless they exit the work force or reduce their work hours because they decided to have and take care of kids.

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Anonymous #3 12w

literally every article i see says the opposite. maybe it varies by a cent or two, but that’s it. like what studies are you seeing? /gen

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Anonymous #2 12w

Google actually made a commitment to rectify the gender pay gap via an internal investigation. They found they were actually paying men less overall, largely because women were putting in more hours.

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Anonymous OP 12w

https://fee.org/articles/harvard-study-gender-pay-gap-explained-entirely-by-work-choices-of-men-and-women/ Here's one. The jist of it is men and women have different choices their career that effect pay rates, work different hours, and women are more agreeable so less likely to seek promotions etc.

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Anonymous OP 12w

The "gap" is absolutely there if just you compare average man pay to average women pay in America. This is just a complete over simplification to paint a picture a certain way.

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I don’t know. Why do women knowingly choose to pursue fields that pay less?

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Anonymous #2 12w

Time off to care for kids actually does play quite a bit of a role in it. My question is, since men also decide to have kids, why are they not also taking time off to care for them?

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Anonymous #2 12w

Would you prefer that we just didn’t have teachers and nurses anymore? These are essential and difficult jobs. Instead of discouraging people to go into these fields, we should fairly compensate them.

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Anonymous #2 12w

several things: as of the most recent studies, the pay gap between men and women working in comparable jobs has been significantly reduced but still exists in many fields (now more like 80-90%). but that’s ofc not what social scientists are referring to when they say the gender pay gap — they’re referring to how stereotypically women’s fields are paid less than stereotypically men’s fields and how women are expected to take off work to raise a family and thus disrupt their career and earnings

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Anonymous #7 12w

Women are often much better at taking care of babies, while men are better when they matured more. Generalization of course. Also, usually its the woman who's on maternity leave and the father often doesn't get paternity leave.

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Anonymous #2 12w

trajectory. thats still an inequality. we value women’s work differently and force them to perform unpaid labor in the home and then shame them for shit like “choosing fields that pay less” when we would pay whatever fields women chose less regardless of

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Anonymous #3 12w

So why don’t we start offering paternity leave then? Things like these will help both men and women.

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Anonymous #3 12w

What do you mean matured more? Most people having children are already adults and very well capable of caring for children. Women are better at it because we are the ones taught to do these things. Men could be good at them too if they are taught it.

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Anonymous #7 12w

Money

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Anonymous #3 12w

women are “better” at taking care of babies because they’re raised from birth to prioritize taking care of babies over a career. that’s not a reflection of nature that’s a reflection of nurture. and yeah we should have guaranteed PAID maternity and paternity leave and it should be normal for both genders to take time off to care of babies

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Anonymous #7 12w

We live in a free society. Men and women are both allowed to decide to have kids, and it’s up to them to freely decide how they want to work out who is going to take time off to care for them. I don’t think the onus is on us to try to command them how they should divide their careers and household labor in the name of forcing a 50-50 average on paper.

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Anonymous #7 12w

If teachers and nurses feel under-compensated, they are absolutely welcome to push for higher wages, or to leave for a different field that pays better. I encourage free agency.

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Anonymous #8 12w

No one is forcing anyone to go into any field. No one is forcing anyone to perform unpaid labor. You make your own choices, and you live with what you choose, or else choose differently. What’s unfair about that?

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Anonymous #2 12w

teachers and nurses HAVE been pushing for higher wages for forever😭 where have you been dude. these are essential jobs. if no one did them society would be fucked

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Anonymous #9 12w

Literally everyone wants higher wages. Tell me what field out there thinks they’re overpaid and wants to make less

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Who is overpaying them?

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Anonymous #2 12w

yeah. that doesn’t take anything away from my point though. so you agree they should be paid more?

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Anonymous #2 12w

if you want society to function, someone has to perform jobs like nurse or teacher and someone has to perform the unpaid labor of raising children. and women ARE forced into or coerced into taking those roles from literal birth. even if women decided en masse to stop being nurses and teachers, historical trends show that whatever job they choose instead will be valued and thus paid less. if you really see no problem with valuing women’s work less than men’s, i don’t think this convo is for you

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Anonymous #2 12w

also, i think my field is overpaid compared to teachers

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Anonymous #9 12w

I agree that they have the right to decide what they deem an acceptable pay that they’re willing to work for, and what’s too low a number that they will walk away from it.

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Anonymous #8 12w

If you think you’re overpaid, then volunteer for a pay-cut, or donate whatever you think is excessive to someone you think is underpaid.

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Anonymous #8 12w

Literally no one is forced into any career here. Women can choose to pursue anything they’d like.

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Anonymous #2 12w

yes because my salary single-handedly will close the pay gap

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Anonymous #2 12w

do you think it’s a problem that we value the work women do less than the work men do purely because it’s women doing it?

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Anonymous #8 12w

I think your premise is incorrect.

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Anonymous #4 12w

i think #2 has implicitly accepted my premise by making this all about choosing a woman’s profession or a man’s profession

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Anonymous #8 12w

Not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about your premise that majority women professions are paid less BECAUSE they are majority women. I think that is incorrect nor do I think #2 has implicitly accepted this.

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Anonymous #4 12w

that is historically correct. as professions shift in gender composition, their wages shift too. i’m also referencing in part that raising children and taking care of the home is a woman’s job and completely unpaid

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Anonymous #8 12w

Engineering and Medical Doctors are becoming more female but aren’t seeing a decline in pay. If I’m not mistaken when people make this claim they refer to when women joined the workforce and were no longer relegated to staying at home. When looking at the professions women were joining pay saw a decrease. This is what you are referring to correct?

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Anonymous #4 12w

we are seeing a decline in pay in some professions where women are breaking barriers. it will be a long time before engineering, the medical field, law, etc will be predominantly or even equally run by women. what i’m referring to isn’t back in the mid 1900s (which isn’t a bad example, just a more complicated one) but trends within the past 30-40 years. this is happening now

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Anonymous #8 12w

It’s actually a terrible example. Which professionals are you referring to.

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Anonymous #4 12w

i’d have to go digging when i’m off work for the study i’m referring to. i think aside from teaching and nursing, we’re seeing it with computer engineering

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Anonymous #4 12w

it’s a terrible example if all you care about are white women lmao

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Anonymous #8 12w

It’s a terrible example if you look at it through the lens of supply/demand. Demand for laborers in each profession largely stayed the same however the supply increased specifically in the areas women went into resulting in those professions being more competitive and lowering the average pay.

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Anonymous #4 12w

the supply only increased for industries dominated by middle-upper middle class white women. black women and poorer white women were largely already in the workforce

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Anonymous #8 12w

The changes in computer engineering are due to multiple factors such as automation (ironic), an increase in the number of computer engineering graduates meeting previously unmet demand, and also a correction of the hiring boom that happened during COVID. Nothing to do with women.

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Anonymous #4 12w

going from “engineering isn’t seeing a decline in pay” to “engineering isn’t experiencing a decline in pay because of gender” is quite the goalpost shift

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Anonymous #8 12w

Because I was kinda laying a trap. I didn’t say it declined, I said it changed. Computer engineering is seeing a boost in certain industries (AI for example) while seeing a decline in others. See?

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Anonymous #4 12w

aight

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Anonymous #10 12w

well feminism is working toward balancing thet out, since like that's not really equality

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Anonymous #1 12w

That will never happen. Im sorry women are just not as physically capeable as men when it comes to brute strength which is needed in areas like blue collar. We see this in the issue of trans athletes. Honestly its kinda bull to believe women and men can be equals. Hell even one man to another man will never be equals. A good honest job means your paid for the work you put in. If i work harder then jo shmoe then i deserve a larger paycheck. Same thing with women vs men in the workplace. ⬇️

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Anonymous #10 12w

17cents has already been disproven. Anyone who says otherwise just wants to keep playing the victum. If you want more money go work more thats how capitalism works.

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Anonymous #10 12w

just say you know nothing about blue collar work

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Anonymous #8 12w

What are you talking about i did HVAC for 3-4 years

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Anonymous #10 12w

I think only once did i see a female installer and she quit within a month.

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Anonymous #10 12w

the level of “brute force” you’re talking about is maybe 2% of blue collar work

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Anonymous #8 12w

Really? Really? You think moving a boiler or a furnace is light work?

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Anonymous #8 12w

If you were a bluecollar guy you would be the guy everyone hates being stuck with. Lazy, messy van/truck, messy jobsite, leaving early. Aka prime target for being fired

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Anonymous #10 12w

huh now?

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Anonymous #8 12w

Have you even worked a blue collar job?

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Anonymous #10 12w

no, nor am i suggesting i have. my entire family is blue collar workers, tho

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Anonymous #10 12w

that’s just wild shit to say to someone you know exclusively as a number on yikyak

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Anonymous #8 12w

Ive seen worse

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Anonymous #10 12w

same. that doesn’t mean that still isn’t a crazy assumption lmao

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