Anonymous #1 3w

The alternative: You picked focusing on a career, you’re successful but didn’t exactly prioritize trying to lock down someone so maybe you ended up or settled with someone that’s not really you’re first choice. You might’ve started a family but there’s resentment bc you don’t like your guy like that, especially if you make more than him (psychologically true).

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Anonymous #1 3w

Let’s ignore my minor typos and focus on the points. Sleeping soon too

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Anonymous #1 3w

Why in the timeline where i focused on my career I settled or ended up with someone I don't like? Why would i marry someone i don't even like i'm confused?

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Anonymous #1 3w

So this "wealthy man" and i didn't work out and i had to oh no do what i went to school for and studied towards for the rest of my life and support myself? like idk i still don't see how this is a bad situation, i love my job

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Anonymous #1 3w

i also don't understand why i couldn't have this life in both timelines. my degree is in film, so if you just add a couple of Oscars perhaps some Golden Globes, and a SAG award to the first scenario with all my family members with me then that to me is so much more powerful bc not only am i surrounded by ppl who love me, i got to benefit the world by doing something i love

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Anonymous OP 3w

Right you can go down the career path and be surrounded by your proud peers, that’s cool too if you want that. But you’re way overestimating how much men, especially the ones you’re attracted to, find a career woman attractive. Maybe you get chosen out of necessity, but that’s not ideal is it. Then It’s like we said, you settled. You settled because time ran out, you don’t exactly have several decades to wait around and get a family going. Biologically, your body won’t allow that unfortunately.

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Anonymous #1 3w

i don't know if i really want kids anyway. it's not something i aspire to have, like im not closed off to the idea however. i also would prefer to foster or adopt before i have children of my own, since i don't enjoy the idea of being pregnant. i also would think being career driven is attractive 😭 like if i didn't have a job or any desire to get a job men would probably assume im a gold digger

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Anonymous #1 3w

i also don't love the lingo of "getting chosen" again like why would i marry someone i don't like? why would a man marry me if he views me as unattractive or out of necessity??

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Anonymous #3 3w

I completely agree. A big issue I see this on is abortion. Personally I’m pro-choice, but a lot of other pro-choice people can’t comprehend that pro-life people genuinely consider a fetus as a child, and pretty much everyone is against killing children, so naturally they’d be against abortion. It has nothing to do with controlling women, just a difference in belief on what constitutes a living child.

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Anonymous #5 3w

I hate how we live in a world where people assume you go into a career because it makes you a lot of money, not because it's something you're truly passionate about.

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Anonymous stanczyk 3w

Why does tradition = happiness? Also you can't measure happiness. Unless there is a study that surveys the opinions of all the women who have ever lived then you can't just assume something traditional would make all women happier? I also don't know what you mean by reason, or observed reality. I love my career. I'm grateful i'm getting my education. Being able to create works of art that my passion.

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Anonymous OP 3w

I love the major I’m going into and I’m excited about what I’ll be able to do once I graduate, but I don’t think theres anything that can replace a family

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Anonymous #5 3w

Not necessarily, if you get into the real thick of philosophical discussion of abortion, the strongest arguments i've seen (namely the first essay of Don Marquis) that don't even discuss the "personhood" of the fetus

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Anonymous #5 3w

I didn't say it can. I don't understand why people think you have to choose between the two. You can enjoy your career and also enjoy being a parent or having a big family.

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Anonymous OP 3w

I didn't say tradition necessarily equaled happiness, but they exist for a reason and i would advise against throwing them away without REALLY understanding how and why they came to be. Neither i nor anyone else here mentioned "all women", just most women as exceptions are inevitable. When i mentioned reason i am saying i can use logic to assess and rationalize both observed reality and studies i read to form conclusions on what is good, didn't think i needed to spell it out but there you go.

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Anonymous OP 3w

As for you, you are young, and both according to studies and using your brain to take into account the stress of child rearing, the real increase in happiness that comes with parenthood does not come until later in life, being statically noticeable around 40

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Anonymous stanczyk 3w

Well didn't traditional family roles come from toxic heteronormative gender roles that inherently gave women zero autonomy bc it was biologically thought a women couldn't do anything but get pregnant?? like am i stupid or didn't they believe a women could never be capable of the same things a man could achieve?

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Anonymous OP 3w

like imagine all the women throughout history that could've been a second Edison or Tchaikovsky, but was only able to do the dishes and breastfeed. Doesn't that like bother you??

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Anonymous stanczyk 3w

i feel like that's an assumption tho bc parenthood especially motherhood doesn't come naturally to all women

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Anonymous OP 3w

Yes you are being stupid, your view of history is clearly very poor and naive, it is not wise to disregard those of the past as just incompetent and regressive barbarians (with exceptions such as the apache/aztecs/pre-colonial India) with nothing of value to say.

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Anonymous OP 3w

These things were birthed out of a combination of the biological realities of sexual dimorphism in physical and mental form as well as what worked best via being passed down in the most successful and influential societies. Matriarchal societies existed but there is a reason that they never became of note (with the exception of female monarchs which exist across the world). Also I have to ask, are you Christian?

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Anonymous OP 3w

Also, on the idea that motherhood doesn't come naturally to all women, it doesn't, it only comes naturally to the vast vast majority of women via maternal instincts which are both real and very measurable.

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Anonymous stanczyk 3w

I didn't say the were regressive barbarians, but before the women's rights/sufferage movement women weren't known outside of their husbands. they had to get married bc they had no other options. Haven't you read Little Women? What i'm saying is true, the gender roles weren't equal at all.

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Anonymous stanczyk 3w

i grew up Christian, however i'm queer now. (Bisexual). So but i still consider myself Christian although not a lot of Christian are as accepting of that and i also do believe that parts of Christianity as a whole can feed into toxic heteronormativity. I don't believe there is a proper way to be a Christian because Jesus loves everyone, regardless of their background.

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Anonymous OP 3w

Yes i've read little women, i've also read many many other things. Regressive barbarians was hyperbole but you don't seem to comprehend that there may have been an actual, good and functional purpose to a family unit where at baseline, men work for money and handle primarily foreign affairs while women work for her children and primarily handles domestic affairs, note the usage of "primarily" instead of "exclusively" as sharing responsibility in order to reduce the stress of your partner is good

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Anonymous OP 3w

it's also why i'm more open to adoption or fostering than having my own kids, regardless of if i marry another woman.

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Anonymous stanczyk 3w

I can comprehend that but my argument is there are more ways to be a good and functional family that doesn't fit that model, and the question was why do conservative men assume that women would be happier if they did? like just speaking from my own experience i would say my family unit was more functional when my dad retired and my mom worked full time. my dad realized he enjoyed taking care of the domestic affairs more than his job, and my mom got to rise up within her career.

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Anonymous OP 3w

If you are Christian, could you explain why Paul wrote this (verse 12), even when he believed that men and women were equal in the eyes of god? This is partially rhetorical but i am looking for a real response.

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Anonymous stanczyk 3w

Well i'm assuming it was written in a way to control women because like I said they didn't think we were to equal men. This is exactly what i was talking about when i said that parts of Christianity fuel toxic heteronormative gender roles.

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Anonymous OP 3w

It is because women and men are equal but not the same, women have responsibilities in the church equal in value, but just not same as men. If you reject this scripture you are rejecting the authority of the Bible, which as a Christian is very ill advised.

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Anonymous stanczyk 3w

I feel like as a modern day Christian we have to interpret the Bible throughout that lens. I choose to view that way because obviously gender norms and family units have drastically changed since Bible times and there is no political or economic or local reasons women can't have the same responsibilities within a Church a man can and vice versa. Especially bc at the end of the day they are all equal in value like you said. If a man wants to run a children's ministry so be it, if a women wants 1/

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Anonymous OP 3w

lead a sermon so be it. the gender shouldn't matter as long as they are prasing God. I also think because i'm queer specifically, i'm never going to exactly fit into that heteronormative model that Christianity tries to force. It's why i'm non denominational and attended churchs that have women leading within the congregation and are welcoming to queer Christians.

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Anonymous OP 3w

logical* not local

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Anonymous stanczyk 3w

i also think if you're a Christian then you shouldn't judge your fellow Christians just because they practice their faith differently than you do. It doesn't make them less of a Christian and Jesus says to Love Thy Neighbor 🤗

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Anonymous OP 3w

Dogs, cats, and adoption are always there and some pick that option, I'd wager most women wouldn't prefer that (statistically) but I get that's you. Of course you think career drive is attractive you're the girl, not the same the other way around. We choose and get chosen, it's how it works hello. I think you need to think about what settling means in real life, it happens alll the time. And the last piece you're missing is that many people, guys and girls, don't have the options they think

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Anonymous #1 3w

i'm attracted to both genders and i don't see myself getting married to anyone i don't like and it's really concerning if that "happens all the time". I think having a career or more specifically a passion is one of the most attractive qualities abt a person, and if it has happened to be their career of choice then that to me shows they have the work ethic to achieve their goals. I'm not gonna marry someone just bc they are rich. I'm also not gonna marry someone bc im "running out of options"

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Anonymous OP 3w

that's such a closed minded way to approach relationships

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Anonymous OP 3w

You're an exception, most women don't swing like you. You do you, reality is going to happen either way. I understand what you mean about finding those traits attractive, it's expected as you're a woman, so of course, that's normal. Life is complicated, plans change for people, and some people would rather choose option D than stay alone for the remainder of their lives. What you think about something now, might not be the same in 20 years

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Anonymous #1 3w

again i don't appreciate your tone. why is me finding career driven individuals attacking expected because i'm a woman?? like what does that mean?? you keep acting like gender identity pre determines your sexuality and what you find attractive when the two don't coincide at all

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Anonymous OP 3w

attractive* not attacking

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Anonymous OP 3w

Not saying it determines your sexuality (never even implied it) but it does determine a lot about your biology and physiology. we're predisposed to many things in life as functions in the brain are developed that way. I can send you a few books about it. We just aren't equal (which is not to say it's a bad thing). I don't mean the tone, it's just yikyak has a character limit so im being concise

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Anonymous #1 3w

gender is a social construct though and i do currently identify as woman but my gender identity is also something i've struggled with my whole life bc i don't like the role society has forced upon women. i don't think that ur gender identity has anything to do with your biology or physiology. if that was the case then what about individuals who are non binary or trans that aren't the gender they were born as? It's also very concerning u don't think women are equal to men. Everyone is equal.

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Anonymous OP 3w

or at least they should be that's what feminism is fighting for, gender equality no matter how you identify

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Anonymous OP 3w

not even going to get into that conversation. But you are saying we have equal human rights which I do very much agree with. I'm saying we are inherently different, we excel at different things based on the thing you are at birth. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule so that means it's not 100%

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Anonymous #1 3w

but not everyone is the gender they are assigned at birth, so that contradicts what you're saying about being inherently different is very contradicting to that ideal. it also feels a bit transphobic, like the gender you are at birth has nothing to do with the person you become.

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Anonymous OP 3w

That's an entirely different convo. my basis, to keep it simple, is the same premise from the start of this thread

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Anonymous #1 3w

then we are entering another conversation? what's wrong with that?

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Anonymous OP 3w

Because it's pointless, we're going to disagree and go nowhere. i don't align with that idealogy, not phobic or any other shame word you want to use, just don't care and mind my own business been it comes to that

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Anonymous #1 3w

"i don't align with that idealogy" i'm confused. you said you weren't even conservative but if you don't align with the concept that gender isn't binary then that is a conservative position, and i would even argue now that i know this it makes your stance on the question at hand even more invalid, since you believe that men and women are biologically predispositioned when that literally couldn't be so far from the truth.

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Anonymous #6 3w

Just bc you prioritize your career doesnt mean it consumes you, believe it or not some people are just passionate about and love their jobs.

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Anonymous OP 3w

Yeah and I enjoy my career as well but for most people I think they will discover they need more or wish they had more meaning in their lives. But yeah you can def have your career be A priority just probably not the only or main one

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Anonymous OP 3w

Wow, I'm honestly impressed you believe all that. No I'm still not a conservative, these aren't mutually exclusive concepts. What you're saying is so irrelevant to the original topic, like yes have fun live your life do whatever you want to do with whomever. But we were speaking generally and your lifestyle is nowhere near the majority of women.

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Anonymous OP 2w

Came across this gem and had to come back here. It’s more common than you think too 🤣

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Anonymous #1 2w

the OP is also thinks all men aren't able to be fathers and wants to lead a man under false pretenses to get her pregnant. if she's who you think is a better representation of women than me ok....

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Anonymous OP 2w

No need to use an extreme to try to make a point

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Anonymous #1 2w

dude im not using an extreme?? did you read the comments under that post?? she's doing exactly what i described. she's somehow being both misandrist and misogynistic at the same time

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