Anonymous #1 11w

That last part is exactly what I’m saying though. Non black women are identifying as studs when the term wasn’t made for them and now it feels like the same thing with trans men. Where do we draw the line? People can identify as what they want, but when we can’t even make one clear definition for anything, we will never be taken seriously.

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Anonymous #1 11w

Also trans men can be intertwined in lesbian history(which they are) without being lesbians themselves. Being a part of something does not always make you that thing. 🤷‍♀️

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Anonymous OP 11w

This is the exact same reason transphobes hate trans women. “If a man can be a woman then white people can be black.” I don’t understand how you don’t see that you are directly repackaging transphobic statements and aiming them at the “bad” transes

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Anonymous #2 11w

I understand what you’re saying and you’re right transphobes do that all the time, but why we can’t solidify even ONE definition or something? What’s the problem with lesbian just meaning a NON man who loves NON men?

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Anonymous OP 11w

Well it used to mean only cis women loving only cis women. So why is the non man definition okay and not a problem. Because the label changed, you seem to have no problem with that new label

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Anonymous #3 11w

Like I said to the other person, people can identify as what they want. I just care about how we’re perceived as a marginalized community. Phobic people always think we are “confused” and this conversation is definitely confusing to say the least. We can’t grow as a community if we can’t learn and accept that we don’t all think the same. We aren’t a monolith.

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Anonymous #2 11w

Did I say I didn’t have a problem with it changing? No. I think non men is pretty fair because trans women and gnc people exist who ARENT men, but bringing men into the identity of lesbian contradicts what it is in the first place. Not everything in life has to be shared and I think we’re taking it too far on some of these things.

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Anonymous OP 11w

except trans men have been welcome in the lesbian community since the beginning. it isn't the same. we aren't getting taken srsly as it is, bc we can't come tg as a community bc yall r too focused on the three trans men lesbians than the politicians that are taking our rights away and the people that are murdering gay people. we have actual issues going on. trans men lesbians and gay trans women were at stonewall and the events that followed that eventually led to us getting the rights we had.

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Anonymous OP 11w

im ngl i dont rlly gaf what u have to say abt "what i am" bc ive been a lesbian and a trans men involved in my local gay community for so long. real ppl dont gaf. me and my lesbian partner wish u a happy rest of ur pride month (even tho its the last day) and hope u can realize that we have other stuff to worry abt that policing identities.

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Anonymous #1 11w

You can be welcome in a community and not be that identity. Being welcomed in doesn’t mean you’re automatically that thing. If I write short stories and I join the poetry club because they write too and I feel connected to them, that doesn’t automatically make me a poet.

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Anonymous OP 11w

Why do you care what they think? We’ll never be “right” to them so what’s the point on trying. Embrace your queerness friend

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Anonymous #1 11w

And you’re welcome to identify as such if you want because I believe in freedom of identity. That doesn’t mean I think it’s not weird because I do, but you do you. I’m not trying to tell you to switch identities at all. I’m just saying I think it’s contradictory and if that upsets you, I can’t control how you feel.

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Anonymous OP 11w

ok and u can think it's weird. to urself. i cant control that u think its weird, and i honestly daf and im tired if my identity being a hot topic of debate whether im "valid" or some shit. deadass js like a conservative all up in gay ppl's business. mind ur own and ill mind mine, u can think what u want to urself.

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Anonymous #1 11w

I’m just giving back what you gave me. As I said 100 times already, you can identify as you wish and you should have the right to.

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Anonymous #3 11w

Because can we at least be “right” to ourselves? Queerness doesn’t and shouldn’t mean absolutely anything goes.

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Anonymous OP 11w

when have i ever made posts abt u personally debating whether ur identity is valid. lmao. its obvious this is js u trolling and not u actually being interested in having a conversation. hope u get better soon.

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Anonymous #1 11w

I was one of the first people in the other post and had communication with the OP and still do BECAUSE I care about this topic and wanna talk about it, but ok. People like you always decide someone’s “trolling” just cause you don’t like their opinion and then tap out of the conversation. Seen it so many times.

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Anonymous #1 11w

I was even gonna make a gc for people to talk in so it wouldn’t flood the community posts but I’m sure you’d have a problem with that too

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Anonymous OP 11w

That’s actually insane. It literally does mean that. If you aren’t hurting someone (cough pedos) then why does it matter what you identify as??

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Anonymous #3 11w

If it means absolutely anything, then I guess the phobes are more right than I thought. Let’s just bring in people that might wanna identify as inanimate objects too. Let’s let in the maps because ANYTHING goes, right? Having parameters is not a bad thing. Queerness meaning anything at all is the crazy thing.

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Anonymous #4 11w

It doesn’t even matter what I say. They won’t even hear me out because they can’t get past the “wrong timing”. It’s a very fair comparison. Can’t believe I’ve been seeing so much of this in the community lately.

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Anonymous #6 11w

also these are different things and constantly bring up the black community to make comparisons is tacky.

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Anonymous #5 11w

If you can’t draw parallels about how this stuff is similar(notice how I never said the same) then I can’t help you

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Anonymous OP 11w

You're talking about these two things as if they should be treated the same way. Which, considering that communities have different standards and such, they shouldn't. Trans men can identify lesbians if they so choose, and white people should not identify as studs. Case closed.

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Anonymous #6 11w

Fun fact: you can talk about two different topics at the same time and that doesn’t mean you think they are equal to each other.

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Anonymous OP 11w

you're either being deliberately obtuse or you don't know how communication works. You bring up "white people identifying as studs" aside "trans men identifying as lesbians" because you want to imply they should be treated in the same manner.

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Anonymous #6 11w

They should be treated in a similar manner. I’ve literally been saying that from the start.

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Anonymous #6 11w

If men can be lesbians, that defeats the whole point of what being lesbian means and changes the definition completely. Words don’t lose all meaning just because they’re becoming more inclusive. If men wanna identify that way, they can and I’ll never tell they can’t, but it just doesn’t make logical sense. It’s like a straight person identifying as gay just because they connect with gay people more and don’t wanna be viewed as straight.

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Anonymous OP 11w

Trans men who identify as lesbians feel right to themselves. Ergo, it seems like your problem is that *you* don’t understand why a trans man may have a complicated relationship with womanhood or their history as a trans man. There are people who explain that sort of thing online and you can find that pretty easily! But you don't need to come in and say that the ways in which people define themselves are wrong.

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Anonymous OP 11w

Historically, the umbrella term "queer" literally is a reference to any non-cishet identities; people who fall outside of patriarchal standards of gender and sexuality and are therefore, literally, queer. When we started advocating for ourselves, we created boundaries around ourselves that were, essentially, "anything goes as long as everyone involved's consenting" <-- this is why pedophiles are not included.

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Anonymous OP 11w

And to address your point that it "feels" to you like trans men are co-opting/stealing the lesbian label: there is Sooooo much history of trans men and lesbians having intertwined community, identity, & space with cis lesbians, especially butch lesbians. This is another area that you can learn about, since it sounds like not knowing that history is making you uncomfortable!

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