Anonymous #1 3d

genuinely don’t know if you’re talking about minorities or white people

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Anonymous #1 3d

Idk man I would say that systemically forcing groups of people down using different standards based on the color of their skin feels more racist, it should not be shocking that affirmative action programs are one of the solutions to that. Your assertion that it lowers standards is just pure racism tho.

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Anonymous #2 3d

Lower SAT and MCAT requirements for black people in college and med school respectively

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Anonymous OP 3d

No, I argue for enforcing the same standards because everyone can achieve those standards regardless of skin color is meritocracy. DEI and Affirmative action are literally systemic racism against white people.

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Anonymous #1 3d

but pause you realize what you described is exactly what white people have been doing for white people since the inception of the nation right?

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Anonymous #2 3d

Well, if you want to look historically, after we abolished slavery and institued the proper amendments to give all people regardless of skin color the same rights, everyone was treated equally under the law. Affirmative action quite literally lowers or raises college acceptance standards strictly based on skin color. the same is true for the MCAT and the field of medicine. That is unequivocally systemic racism

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Anonymous #1 3d

So you realize that narrative “since the inception of the nation” is no longer true and in fact the opposite is true?

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Anonymous #1 3d

Clearly you do not want to look at it historically lmao

1

Anonymous OP 3d

I just did… lol ?

1

Anonymous #1 3d

If you think that everyone was actually given the same rights and treatment in practice after the civil war you are insane

1

Anonymous #1 3d

so you think, as soon as black people got voting rights, all the racist employers, renters, officers, judges, and educators just like evaporated? you think there aren’t ways to oppress outside of the law?

1

Anonymous OP 3d

No, because the civil rights act was also important and helped further that progress.

1

Anonymous #2 3d

the law made it pretty clear that everyone should have a fair shot at employment. are you suggesting that past discrimination is a justification for discrimination today?

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Anonymous #1 3d

Okay so that contradicts what you just said

1

Anonymous #1 3d

I am suggesting that past discrimination is a justification for present action, which you are incorrectly characterizing as discrimination.

1

Anonymous OP 3d

No, it fits fine? what does it contradict?

1

Anonymous OP 3d

No, it’s prefectly characterized as discrimination. Thanks for making that clear.

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Anonymous #1 3d

“Everyone got the same rights after the civil war but also the civil rights act (100 years later) was an advancement in that

1

Anonymous #1 3d

stay with me now do you think racial oppression can’t exist outside of the law?

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Anonymous OP 3d

Yeah. Anyways when you were born what rights did I have that you dont? None. That does not justify present discrimination

1

Anonymous #2 3d

Yeah because colleges are actively discriminating against white and asian people, even though it’s illegal

1

Anonymous #1 3d

ok so it’s possible to oppress regardless of the law. so what was your point in bringing up equality under the law if oppression exists independent of the law? and essentially agreed black people could still be oppressed?

1

Anonymous #2 3d

the fact of the matter is they are not, and are rather systematically aided at the expense of whites and asians (most especially in college admissions)

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Anonymous #1 3d

ok but stay with me. if the law didn’t actually give black people equality then when exactly did they stop being oppressed?

1

Anonymous #1 3d

Easy, the reconstruction amendments but also the civil rights act but also MLK bad because he said affirmative action good

1

Anonymous OP 3d

Responded to the wrong person

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Anonymous #2 3d

Idk, but at least before they started lowering standards specifically so black or other people could be “represented” just for the sake of their skin color alone. How would you feel as an established medical doctor in the field seeing they lowered standards specifically for people who look like you just because of the color of their skin? how does that brings into question the merit that got you to be an established doctor vs the new people who look like you.

5

Anonymous #1 3d

Judge not based on the color of skin, but ability and character. There should not be different standards for different skin colors, against anyone, in the government or employment period. I believe in your post you’re referring to biases, which do exist. I’m talking about institutional racism.

1

Anonymous OP 3d

No, i never said mlk was bad. In fact i think you’d do well to listen to his words “I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”

1

Anonymous #1 3d

MLK was pretty famously in favor of what you’re saying is systemic racism and you’re boiling his whole position down to one line from one speech

1

Anonymous OP 3d

Institutionalizing a judgement process of people on the preconceived basis of skin color in order to enforce different standards - either favorably or unfavorably - is systemic racism no matter how you slice it.

1

Anonymous #1 3d

ok so you say black people have stopped being oppressed but don’t know and the only thing you have telling you the oppression did stop is the existence of affirmative action policies, but who’s to say the oppression DIDN’T stop and those policies are co-occurring with that oppression to counteract the disadvantages it causes

1

Anonymous #2 3d

You’re arguing that some unconfirmed % of existing bias against people should require institutionalized racism on the rest of the population. Bias exists yes. Systemic racism is not the solution. The solution is called treating everyone equally, regardless of their skin color - in interaction, opportunity, in law, and in life.

1

Anonymous #1 3d

you can’t confirm the percent of existing bias but we can measure how pervasive discrimination is in the workforce, in education, the justice system, housing market… if you’re claiming institutionalized racism can exist regardless of the law who says institutional racism against black people ever stopped

1

Anonymous #2 3d

you can argue bias still exists on a personal level and differs between people, that’s fine, and i agree. institutionalizing racism on the governmental level wont fix that and, will in fact, cause more racism than the bias that exists from individual to individual.

1

Anonymous #1 3d

nah on the institutional level. what makes you say institutional racism against black people stopped if it can exist independently from the law

1

Anonymous #2 3d

Again you’re arguing about biases which are largely unenforceable or unprovable in any meaningful way - as every individual has biases and are not drones. So they may be racist and biased. institutionally enforcing different standards specifically based on the color of ones skin - in favor of some and at the expense of others in a measureable and meaningful way - is completely different and will not resolve the problem of people being biased. i dont know how else to put it.

1

Anonymous #1 3d

mm i don’t think you know exactly what i’m talking about. the systems that were deliberately made to keep black people oppressed are cyclical so even if the crazy bigoted racists who created them are gone, all it takes to prop the system up is the bias you speak of so yea institutionalized oppression still exists for black people. there was nothing ever done to deliberately reverse the systems in place so they kept on

1

Anonymous #1 3d

also like i said we totally can measure bias on an individual level and an institutional level and determine the scale of its harm. sure everyone has biases but it’s not always mundane- when it’s on a large scale and when the same people with these biases are cycled through positions of power that’s a system of oppression

1

Anonymous #2 3d

I do know what I’m talking about, but thanks. What systems can you point to thay are as institutionally racist to black people as the examples i provided?

1

Anonymous #1 3d

lmao i said you don’t know what IM talking about and obviously you don’t bc you just asked

1

Anonymous #2 3d

anyway

1

Anonymous #2 3d

Missed that, apologies. Please provide examples of systemic racism on the scale of the examples i provided, instead of pointing to nonexistent“systems” and people having inherent biases.

1

Anonymous #2 3d

how are you measuring how affirmative action is to white and asian people? like their acceptance rates? what’s the metric?

1

Anonymous #2 3d

This is NYU. This example is not limited to NYU, and is in fact worse in many other cases, including ivy leagues. Where, perhaps an Asian w/ a 1550 sat is passed on for a black person with a much lower score.

1

Anonymous #1 3d

this doesn’t actually tell me much dawg. unless you’re trying to argue black students shouldn’t be admitted at all because on average they have lower SAT scores this doesn’t say much of anything i’m afraid

1

Anonymous #2 3d

SAT is a good signal for the ability to succeed at the difficulty of curricla at each college. This is a perfect example of enforcing different SAT requirements for enrollment. Those are average scores per admitted student by race, demonstrating enforcement of lower or higher standards strictly based on race.

1

Anonymous #1 3d

again, please find me an example of these “cyclical systems” being held up to oppress black people

1

Anonymous #1 3d

first of all no it’s not all the SAT tests is how well you can take the SAT, second why are you acting like an application is only sat score and race- to measure discrimination you’d have to control for race and then show it on a large scale, and lastly NYU is test optional meaning this data is automatically not all encompassing

1

Anonymous #1 3d

also the prison industrial complex

1

Anonymous #2 3d

The prison industrial complex? Like when Kamala imprisoned so many people for weed and then made them sources of labor? yes that’s pretty bad. but also, crime rates and race… if SAT wasnt all encompassing why wouldnt they accept whites/asians/hispanics at the same rates and scores as blacks (to lower their average SAT acceptance for all races)?

1

Anonymous #1 3d

actually yea over policing with drug crime is a big part of the prison industrial complex yeah and again— an application isn’t only race and SAT score so this doesn’t actually demonstrate discrimination unless you isolate the variables. like a major obvious confounded for example would be income

1